To feel mean thinking it's reasonable for the pension triple lock to be broken?

[BendyTrendy]

Tricky one because our state pensions are lower than the rest of the EU, but also the largest area of welfare spending (at about 42% of the welfare budget).

Still, on balance, I think it's reasonable to break the triple lock under the circumstances of both Brexit and Covid recovery.

Can the country justify an 8% rise to the state pension under the circumstances? Is the triple lock on pensions sustainable? I feel mean even asking the questions, but tough choices must be made.

Boris Johnson signals 'triple lock' on pensions could be broken amid estimates of 8% rise

State pension predicted to rise by 8%

Rishi Sunak hints at suspension to pension triple lock

Tough one.

Shouldn't we, as a society, be demanding that our taxes are used to support all the vulnerable groups?

I agree hence why all taxes need to be looked at.

*How do you know that pensioners weren’t stay at home parents once too?
They might have been indeed, but that was at a time they were told that they would definitely get a state pension in retirement and occupational pensions were almost non existent, specially for the low paid. Nowadays, it's a legal requirement, so quite a different situation.

The poor are screwed in favour of the rich

I believe "poor" people are also entitled to a pension.

Do you mean child benefit which is now means tested and the equivalent which used to be available to all families?

It used to only be available to second and subsequent children until 1977. Plenty of pensioners raised their families without it.

It also means vulnerable groups
To me, vulnerable groups are those who can't or have much fewer options to change the position they are in. People who don't want to work more hours because they want more time with their children don't fall into that category.

The biggest mistake young people make currently is to decide to have children before getting on the ladder. That alone makes it so much harder to do so. When they go on to have two or more children, it becomes almost impossible.

Are we just going to ignore that the age of mothers & first time buyers has increased & people are having less children in general?

@DancesWithTortoises so was it means tested for those subsequent dc?
and what happened after 1977?

Family allowance is too high these days for a benefit that almost everyone gets

If they scrapped it, there would be a very decent amount to help offset the debt we have incurred or to improve health and education services.

As the biggest receivers of the welfare budget, why are pensioners not speaking up for other groups?

What makes you think they aren't? All those I know do speak up and donate to charity and foodbanks locally.

It doesn't suit your argument, though, does it?

@vivainsomnia you didn't explain how to tackle wage stagnation & less generous private pensions?

Agree that this is divide and rule.

Industry closed initially because of the pandemic. But it remained closed for a long time and closed a few times more because the government failed to deal effectively with the pandemic. They even created a new social class - "the vulnerable" - so called because government failure to deal with the pandemic rendered regular society dangerous for this class of people.

"We" didn't do anything to protect them. They were effectively removed from society. The government's advice that they remove themselves was an admission that they had failed to provide a safe environment for this group of people.

The prolonged industry shut down, the repeated lock downs ofc damaged the economy. But had the government got a proper handle on numbers this wouldn't have happened. We too could have been like much of Asia, where economies have after initial interruption been merrily ticking along for a year now. We certainly had the tech and comms to do the same. But we didn't.

So now the economy is fucked. And we're being told to look at each other for where the blame lies. Don't fall for it. Pensioners didn't cause the economic situation we're in now.

[quote saywhatn]@DancesWithTortoises so was it means tested for those subsequent dc?
and what happened after 1977?[/quote]
After 1977 all children qualified for the benefit. It was very low, as I remember. It wasn't means tested but it should have been.

I have been poor and very comfortable in my life.

Adjust their lives and expectations accordingly.

I didn't think then that the rich owed me to come out of poverty

By that logic are you saying it's ok to for pensioners to be poor? Or that if pensioners are thrown into poverty as as a result of loosing the triple lock it's because they didn't save accordingly & make the right choices?

I disagree.

@PlasticEgg

@DancesWithTortoises was it low in comparison to living costs? Today's is means tested & in my opinion pretty low, no one is having lots of kids for £14 a wk.

I just feel there’s little evidence that pensioners are speaking up for other vulnerable groups or supporting other groups in receipt of the welfare budget. As the biggest receivers of the welfare budget, why are pensioners not speaking up for other groups? Is it just about them getting their triple lock pension and scared about sharing?

I have to say that I find this point of view very odd, that pensioners should be 'speaking up' for recipients of benefits, shouldn't we all? Pensions come out of the welfare budget because of the illogical way they have been set up, but if you have paid your stamps which means you've made at minimum x contribution, it's an entitlement not a claim. Just as those who now get a state pension paid for others when they were working.

A lot of ignorance being spouted, and to be frank some really deplorable comments. People can retire in their 60s, the fact some people seem to think that means they have lived their life at somepoint is baffling.

I'd rather we fought to pay all of those who need it a fair amount rather than dragging one group down because others also get screwed by the Tories.

The solution might be that the (wealthier) pensioners start showing more empathy and support for those less privileged than themselves. Will never happen. That would require humility

FFS what tosh. How do you know this? We are relatively comfortably off pensioners compared to some, and you have no idea what we do to help others. As do many people I know.
I am continually thinking and actioning ways to help others, with anything from an 18 year record of voluntary work (not just a once a week thing, but a serious commitment that rules my life) to making donations, and being aware of how lucky we are and how others need help within my community and elsewhere.

You sound very unpleasant OP. You obviously don't like anyone who is old, you resent them, and you wish they'd die off (you insinuated that in one of your posts).
Shock horror, you'll be old one day and watch out for those younger than you treating you with derision and dislike.

@PlasticEgg nor did the furloughed

The solution might be that the (wealthier) pensioners start showing more empathy and support for those less privileged than themselves. Will never happen. That would require humility

Showing humility and empathy doesn't seem to be your forte.

@Bryonyshcmyony what solutions would you favour?

As the biggest receivers of the welfare budget, why are pensioners not speaking up for other groups?

Are you saying that everyone who works/volunteers for campaigning organisations is under 66?

The only alternatives I've seen is to remove child benefit for all & stop giving benefits to the feckless who keep having children. It's like Daily Mail bingo!

@saywhatn agree absolutely. Who is actually in charge of the economy, of the country? I mean who has it on their job description and gets paid for it? Start there for answers.

[quote saywhatn]@Bryonyshcmyony what solutions would you favour? [/quote]
Triple lock dropped for this year then reinstated and all tax payers pay a penny more in income tax.

This is an unpopular view, but it is factual that the elderly are also in the group most likely to die. They’ve had their time. Covid just speeded up the inevitable process. Maybe nature had a way of telling us that we can’t continue living unnaturally long lives anymore. It’s unsustainable for the planet, it’s resources and the welfare budget

Yes, it's an unpopular view, because it's a disgusting view. Truly vile.