To feel mean thinking it's reasonable for the pension triple lock to be broken?

[BendyTrendy]

Tricky one because our state pensions are lower than the rest of the EU, but also the largest area of welfare spending (at about 42% of the welfare budget).

Still, on balance, I think it's reasonable to break the triple lock under the circumstances of both Brexit and Covid recovery.

Can the country justify an 8% rise to the state pension under the circumstances? Is the triple lock on pensions sustainable? I feel mean even asking the questions, but tough choices must be made.

Boris Johnson signals 'triple lock' on pensions could be broken amid estimates of 8% rise

State pension predicted to rise by 8%

Rishi Sunak hints at suspension to pension triple lock

Tough one.

the reason they would have an income of over 50k is because they have worked for contributed and invested for there retirement

🙄

So should I get child benefit then? I work hard.

Plus how can I access one of the better private pension schemes please? The one that used to exist at my workplace closed to new entrants whilst I was at uni.

Why should they forfeit pension because they have been responsible in there working life .

The government claims they can't afford to keep the UC uplift, leaving some with less than £80 a week. That includes many disabled people who are equally 'responsible' but with health problems that mean they're always going to need to claim benefits. Why should one group be eligible for so much, while others are destitute?

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

I don't think the young are screwed in favour of the old. The poor are screwed in favour of the rich The Tories are good at divide and rule and finding anyone else to blame. We live in such a unequal, unhappy society and its getting worse. They look to the US for inspiration, and ways for the rich to get richer, instead of more equal and happier countries

So agree with this.

And the poor, or just getting by, are not in a position to make significant investments into their pensions, so ending the triple lock will hit those who've always had to struggle anyway. The rich, with massive pension pots, will barely notice it.

Why should the youth be required to be the only one to sacrifice here?
Already explained. The youth has options that the retired doesn't have, that simple!

But parents spending time with their children are working. They’re just not getting paid for it
mmm, yes, that's what we are talking about here, paid income and the tax paid that goes with it. Whether looking after your own children is work or not is another debate. The benefits gained from not earning an income and paying tax to look at your children don't affect anyone else but your own family.

So again, you are not talking about fairness all around at all, you are seeing fairness as having it all good around for young people who are making choices to have it better for them, whilst punishing the elders, many of whom worked to benefit the whole society. This comes across as a very self-centred view of what is fair.

The pensioner demographic were also statistically more likely to have voted for deeply foolish Brexit that cost BILLIONS
True but still, my parents are in their eighties and voted Remain. A lot of pensioners I know who voted Leave are rich and would probably still say that losing their pension was a price worth paying for sovreignty or something. It is ip to the government to run the country not just follow the popular vote. I blame them for the referendum but even .more for pursuing the worst possible version of Brexit - completely unnecessary.

I don't understand this rhetoric, how many people are having babies just to live off the state? And you think that's where the money is going?

What is there to not understand? I don't know how many people are having babies to live off the state but I do know that people are very lazy about contraception as can be seen on this forum on a daily basis. Why should the rest of us pay for their stupidity?

Family allowance is too high these days for a benefit that almost everyone gets. It should only go to those in need. And maybe they should get more.

Family allowance is known as "clothing allowance" by my niece and her friends. They don't need it, their husbands earn well. They save it to buy clothes for themselves.

I'd rather it went to an elderly person struggling on a state pension.

YABU as you will be a pensioner one day. The pension age has already gone up from 60 to 67.

For those without company pensions it's not a huge amount to live off.

Not everyone has their own home. Some will already be struggling on what they get.

Benefits are different - people don't work for those. They can sit home and still get paid. Most pensioners have worked and contributed.

State pension probably won't exist by the time my children are old which is sad.

Don't try to blame pensioners for the current financial situation.

Lots of young people had furlough which was money for doing nothing. I had to work all through - it's the way it is.

@vivainsomnia you didn't explain what the young can do about house prices, wage stagnation etc?

@echt

Young people have been screwed over in favour of older people enough without having to cough up for a huge rise in pensions too

How exactly?

Er, well lockdown was primarily to protect the elderly… Plus I really don’t fancy paying more tax to pay for old people when 15% of my income goes on student loan repayments… And yes I’ve voted in every single election since I came of age!

@Orf1abc

Why should they forfeit pension because they have been responsible in there working life .

The government claims they can't afford to keep the UC uplift, leaving some with less than £80 a week. That includes many disabled people who are equally 'responsible' but with health problems that mean they're always going to need to claim benefits. Why should one group be eligible for so much, while others are destitute?

The solution might be that the (wealthier) pensioners start showing more empathy and support for those less privileged than themselves. Will never happen. That would require humility.

@ActonSquirrel - I agree generally re means testing but nothing for children (they don’t have their own money generally or autonomy). Tbh I would like to see prescription charges abolished altogether- I think there’s a better way to contribute to the NHS (via general taxation) and that would ensure no one struggling for money couldn’t afford their prescription. Means testing for prescriptions is also expensive and complex and I generally think medicine should be free at access (if it’s a NHS prescription and your Dr has decided you need it).

But we would need to pay for this- perhaps we could not give an increase in benefits income of 8% to some of the wealthiest in society?

Lots of young people had furlough which was money for doing nothing. I had to work all through - it's the way it is.

🤦🏻‍♀️

People already pay tax on their pensions.

What about when you get old?

So the young people who are more likely to work in hospitality & travel should not have been paid anything despite their industries being closed in order to protect others?

Well, I'll just tell you that my pension is £505.68 per month. Now do you think you are being unreasonable?

@vivainsomnia

Why should the youth be required to be the only one to sacrifice here? Already explained. The youth has options that the retired doesn't have, that simple!

But parents spending time with their children are working. They’re just not getting paid for it
mmm, yes, that's what we are talking about here, paid income and the tax paid that goes with it. Whether looking after your own children is work or not is another debate. The benefits gained from not earning an income and paying tax to look at your children don't affect anyone else but your own family.

So again, you are not talking about fairness all around at all, you are seeing fairness as having it all good around for young people who are making choices to have it better for them, whilst punishing the elders, many of whom worked to benefit the whole society. This comes across as a very self-centred view of what is fair.

How do you know that pensioners weren’t stay at home parents once too?

Why should they have their cake and it? Spend time with their children and raising them to be well-adjusted for the workplace. Then also getting the pension benefit too?

It’s shortsighted to ignore the needs of younger families providing for future generations. That’s not self-centred view of fairness, it’s addressing the fact we need our youth to be well adjusted for the world of work and part of that is providing a stable home life.

Will that change things? There are not enough young people, the median age is 40.5 & obviously kids can't vote.

The younger age groups are always the ones who are least likely to turn out at an election.

While there is a general ageing of the population the 18-59 age groups are still n the majority ffs.

I do think that younger people calling for reductions in state pensions are potentially shooting themselves in the foot for their future. Shouldn't we, as a society, be demanding that our taxes are used to support all the vulnerable groups? Shouldn't we also demand that employers pay an actual living wage so people can live on what they earn rather than rely on top ups?

Or is it just easier to bash pensioners for daring to want to eat and heat their houses - and yes, many do live on the breadline and many do face that choice.

*their cake and eat it

On the fence on this. On one hand, lots of pensioners will have contributed tax over the years and should get the benefits of that. However we need to recoup the funds somehow.
Maybe more business tax given all the help they had, raise in personal tax and reduce other benefits and get far stricter on who can claim.

What is there to not understand? I don't know how many people are having babies to live off the state but I do know that people are very lazy about contraception as can be seen on this forum on a daily basis. Why should the rest of us pay for their stupidity?

You literally answered your own question. You don't know how many but we are all paying for them.

Family allowance is too high these days for a benefit that almost everyone gets. It should only go to those in need. And maybe they should get more.

Do you mean child benefit which is now means tested and the equivalent which used to be available to all families?

While there is a general ageing of the population the 18-59 age groups are still n the majority ffs

who denied that @SecretSpAD I was specifically talking about young people.

The solution might be that the (wealthier) pensioners start showing more empathy and support for those less privileged than themselves. Will never happen. That would require humility.

Untwist your knickers, OP, you are looking like a spiteful child stamping your feet.

Pensioners are propping up most charities with their donations. As a group they give more than any other age group. Hardly lacking in empathy.

That's something you are certainly lacking.

The poor are screwed in favour of the rich
It is so pointless to discuss these as it there were just static inheritant status.

Some people who are rich or poor started in the exact same position but made different choices. Some people started poor and ended up rich and vice versa. Some poor people have options to come out of poverty, some wealthier people could lose it all in a matter of months or even weeks.

I have been poor and very comfortable in my life. I wasn't a different person when I was poor. I didn't think then that the rich owed me to come out of poverty, not do I think now that all poor people are so because of their own doing.

you didn't explain what the young can do about house prices, wage stagnation etc?
The same previous generations did when they faced the same issues. Adjust their lives and expectations accordingly. The biggest mistake young people make currently is to decide to have children before getting on the ladder. That alone makes it so much harder to do so. When they go on to have two or more children, it becomes almost impossible.

@SecretSpAD

Will that change things? There are not enough young people, the median age is 40.5 & obviously kids can't vote.

The younger age groups are always the ones who are least likely to turn out at an election.

While there is a general ageing of the population the 18-59 age groups are still n the majority ffs.

I do think that younger people calling for reductions in state pensions are potentially shooting themselves in the foot for their future. Shouldn't we, as a society, be demanding that our taxes are used to support all the vulnerable groups? Shouldn't we also demand that employers pay an actual living wage so people can live on what they earn rather than rely on top ups?

Or is it just easier to bash pensioners for daring to want to eat and heat their houses - and yes, many do live on the breadline and many do face that choice.

Yea, it’s fair that there’s a bigger issue of inequality. We should as a society support each other and our most vulnerable groups. It also means vulnerable groups must support each other rather than play into the hands of divide and rule.

I just feel there’s little evidence that pensioners are speaking up for other vulnerable groups or supporting other groups in receipt of the welfare budget. As the biggest receivers of the welfare budget, why are pensioners not speaking up for other groups? Is it just about them getting their triple lock pension and scared about sharing?