To feel mean thinking it's reasonable for the pension triple lock to be broken?

[BendyTrendy]

Tricky one because our state pensions are lower than the rest of the EU, but also the largest area of welfare spending (at about 42% of the welfare budget).

Still, on balance, I think it's reasonable to break the triple lock under the circumstances of both Brexit and Covid recovery.

Can the country justify an 8% rise to the state pension under the circumstances? Is the triple lock on pensions sustainable? I feel mean even asking the questions, but tough choices must be made.

Boris Johnson signals 'triple lock' on pensions could be broken amid estimates of 8% rise

State pension predicted to rise by 8%

Rishi Sunak hints at suspension to pension triple lock

Tough one.

I don't think the young are screwed in favour of the old. The poor are screwed in favour of the rich
The Tories are good at divide and rule and finding anyone else to blame. We live in such a unequal, unhappy society and its getting worse. They look to the US for inspiration, and ways for the rich to get richer, instead of more equal and happier countries

It's true we can't afford the pensions but we have just thrown away BILLIONS on Brexit in order to be poorer and the government doesn't seem particularly worried about that.

But people voted for Brexit

That's not fair on the younger generations who have lost jobs or had to make other sacrifices.

You do realise, don't you, that many of today's pensioners lived through the economic turmoil of the 70's? Lost out to Thatchers economic policies in the 80's and 90's and then got hit by another recession?

Unemployment in the 80's topped 3 million. Whole communities were destroyed. Children went hungry then too.

Then there was the sudden increase in interest rates up to 15% which led to a lot of working poor who had taken advantage of the right to buy scheme losing their home. So children were made homeless.

And now those people who had a shitty five decades of hardship are being begrudged a measley £130 a week. And believe me they are not Tory voters.

If younger people want better benefits then I suggest that at the next election they get off their arses and get down to the polling station and vote out the govt that has actually done this to them.

@Oldsu - I think pensioners should be subject to the same means testing as everyone else for prescriptions, etc

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/26/a-million-pensioners-in-poverty-because-of-unclaimed-benefits

@Charley50 - I used to work in international tax. There are many rules and laws already there to collect tax from international business- both internationally and domestically.

The idea that Amazon can pay some more tax and we can all have what we want is a myth I’m afraid. And not an answer to generational inequality or corrupt allocation of resources.

Oh, and 8% of fuck is fuck all.

@SecretSpAD

That's not fair on the younger generations who have lost jobs or had to make other sacrifices.

You do realise, don't you, that many of today's pensioners lived through the economic turmoil of the 70's? Lost out to Thatchers economic policies in the 80's and 90's and then got hit by another recession?

Unemployment in the 80's topped 3 million. Whole communities were destroyed. Children went hungry then too.

Then there was the sudden increase in interest rates up to 15% which led to a lot of working poor who had taken advantage of the right to buy scheme losing their home. So children were made homeless.

And now those people who had a shitty five decades of hardship are being begrudged a measley £130 a week. And believe me they are not Tory voters.

If younger people want better benefits then I suggest that at the next election they get off their arses and get down to the polling station and vote out the govt that has actually done this to them.

Exactly what I was trying to say in my clumsy way.

If younger people want better benefits then I suggest that at the next election they get off their arses and get down to the polling station and vote out the govt that has actually done this to them.

Will that change things? There are not enough young people, the median age is 40.5 & obviously kids can't vote.

[quote echt]**@Oldsu - I think pensioners should be subject to the same means testing as everyone else for prescriptions, etc

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/26/a-million-pensioners-in-poverty-because-of-unclaimed-benefits[/quote]
Ditto pregnant women and children.

A pregnant woman and her children living in a million pound house and high earners get
free prescriptions and dental whilst pregnant and for their children until what 18?

Same as a low income family counting every penny.

I'm all for applying means testing to everyone.

Very simple answer. Take away state pension for those with incomes over £50k. That's what they did with child benefit. £50k is enough to live on without state benefits on top. If they can do it for workers (who are already paying higher "notional" deductions via tax, NIC, student loans, etc), then can do it for the richest few percent of pensioners. The money saved can be used to increase state pensions for the vast majority who don't have incomes over £50k. Simples.

And now those people who had a shitty five decades of hardship are being begrudged a measley £130 a week. And believe me they are not Tory voters.

What all pensioners had 5 decades of hardship & don't vote Tory. I've not seen evidence of that in statistical data or are you just talking anecdotally?

@Serenissima21

I don't agree. Pensioners have earnt their pensions and many would struggle to supplement their income now. It's true we can't afford the pensions but we have just thrown away BILLIONS on Brexit in order to be poorer and the government doesn't seem particularly worried about that.

The pensioner demographic were also statistically more likely to have voted for deeply foolish Brexit that cost BILLIONS. If the Brexit vote costs the pensioners demographic the triple lock then that’s clearly a sacrifice they have chosen.

Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union

I'd rather the money spent on free prescriptions for pregnant women and children in high earning families who do not need it be redistributed for poor families and better support.

resulting in pensioners potentially not being able to afford food and fuel, especially given the significant rises these are seeing presently.

And it’s not as if elderly pensioners (Thinking about the over 75 year old people) can easily go out and earn more.

Women - especially those who gave up working to support male careers and raise children- are particularly badly hit and in poverty in old age.

People of working age can work.

We can’t support pensioners who’ve had their time at the expense of the youth who are yet to have theirs. It’s not natural or right. There needs to be more balance between demographics.

So much ageist shite in this thread.

Of course we can support pensioners. They haven't "had their time" they are still having it. And having paid in for years are entitled to reap the benefits. That's natural and right - you get out what you've put in.

We didn't have children until we could afford them and we only had as many as we could afford. That's the civilised way. Propping up those who refuse to regulate their fertility is just daft.

I'm all in favour of more money for schools and universities. That's the way to look after the young.

But people voted for Brexit
They didn't vote for the economically crippling version of Brexit that they got though. If we're serious about saving money, this is where we should start.

@ActonSquirrel I think removing free prescriptions for children is a different issue as children don't have autonomy & under their parents care so it could lead to more neglect & I believe all children need a fair start in life.

That's not to say it couldn't be optional for those that are happy to pay.

@user1497207191

the reason they would have an income of over 50k is because they have worked for contributed and invested for there retirement .
Why should they forfeit pension because they have been responsible in there working life .
Rather than piss it all away so you get state handout .

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

I don't think the young are screwed in favour of the old. The poor are screwed in favour of the rich The Tories are good at divide and rule and finding anyone else to blame. We live in such a unequal, unhappy society and its getting worse. They look to the US for inspiration, and ways for the rich to get richer, instead of more equal and happier countries

Divide and conquer worked for the British Empire, so I can see why they’re using the strategy here too. It’s a tough strategy to beat.

We didn't have children until we could afford them and we only had as many as we could afford. That's the civilised way. Propping up those who refuse to regulate their fertility is just daft.

I don't understand this rhetoric, how many people are having babies just to live off the state? And you think that's where the money is going?
See this is why it can't be a sensible debate.

The Tories are good at divide and rule and finding anyone else to blame

Absolutely

@lazyarse123 - state pension are contributions based benefits. They are state benefits which are paid by existing taxpayers. There is no pot of money paid into by past workers- they are simply benefits paid by current taxpayers.

Many current pensioners will claim a lot more in benefits than they ever contributed in tax. This is due to factors like increase in life expectancy without corresponding increase in pension age.

I get my pension next month. Even with a small (£300 a month) occupational pension, it won't be enough for me to live on unless I give up things like running a car. I'll have to carry on working for as long as I can and then release equity from my house and move to a cheaper area.

A week's state pension just about covers a month of my council tax and water charges. Internet, tv licence, energy and insurance accounts for another week's pension, at least until I can change my internet contract. Every damn month, something expensive seems to need fixing or replacing.

My MIL, who's only worked for 16 years in her entire 80+ year life, gets pension credit, which is only £2.50 a week less than my full state pension, plus she gets full housing benefit and doesn't have to pay a penny in council tax. And because she lives in a council house, when anything in her home needs fixing, it doesn't cost her a bean.

It doesn't seem like much after 49 years of working and paying tax. And I'll still be paying tax on some of my occupational pension, even after I stop work. I'll be stuffed if the triple lock goes.

Also what your dhs pension is ohh is irrelevant! It’s a benefit not a job!

Per hour not ohh