To feel mean thinking it's reasonable for the pension triple lock to be broken?

[BendyTrendy]

Tricky one because our state pensions are lower than the rest of the EU, but also the largest area of welfare spending (at about 42% of the welfare budget).

Still, on balance, I think it's reasonable to break the triple lock under the circumstances of both Brexit and Covid recovery.

Can the country justify an 8% rise to the state pension under the circumstances? Is the triple lock on pensions sustainable? I feel mean even asking the questions, but tough choices must be made.

Boris Johnson signals 'triple lock' on pensions could be broken amid estimates of 8% rise

State pension predicted to rise by 8%

Rishi Sunak hints at suspension to pension triple lock

Tough one.

I’m anti ending the triple lock, and I’m only 35.

The Tories won’t redistribute more fairly to the younger generation - they’ll just cut back spending in general, and the state pension will just decline to a paltry sum.

I remember when bad pensioner poverty in the early 90s was a thing- I don’t long for the return of those times.

I wouldn’t trust a Tory Govt as far as I could throw them- they won’t redistribute the difference more fairly.

Exactly @Rainy365

A blanket belief that all young people have choices often equates to the idea you can work hard to escape poverty. That's quite simplistic & lack of income doesn't necessarily mean less choice. Assets also give you choices & older people tend to have more assets.

I just feels there’s not much help for younger families
Really? All those on tax credits who received an extra £20 during Covid? They only group which did see a nice increase in their income from the benefit system. It's funny how easy it is to forget the things we take for granted.

But tax credits aren't just for those with kids?

and plenty of families don't get tax credits

Assets also give you choices & older people tend to have more assets
Because you don't think the few poor pensioners haven't already released their assets when they can? Of course they do, but most don't have assets to release, or doing so would put them in an even more vulnerable position.

But tax credits aren't just for those with kids?
The majority is and pensioners who have stopped working certainly don't.

The point remains that the only group who did receive an increase were predominantly younger people with children, so how is that being forgotten about by the system?

@vivainsomnia But i haven't said poor pensioners or all pensioners have assets have I? I just said you can't generalise and say young people have choices & pensioners don't.

Honestly I feel like I'm in the twilight zone! Are my posts really that difficult to understand? 🧐

@vivainsomnia

I just feels there’s not much help for younger families Really? All those on tax credits who received an extra £20 during Covid? They only group which did see a nice increase in their income from the benefit system. It's funny how easy it is to forget the things we take for granted.

And many of the people receiving this are in genuine need and vulnerable with no choices. But you are suggesting in many of your posts that this is for lazy people who have choices, and pensioners don’t.

Just increase as promised it may be a large amount of our welfare budget but to be fair already paid foe by these people, if only previous goverments had left the money in the pension pots

Also people saying 3% on nhs so unfair to d0 8% , 3 % in a dr wage is wuite a lot compared to 8% on a state pension

@MsMoody but those claiming the pensions have paid in for this, more so than some who claim benefits and have never worked

@worriedatthemoment

Just increase as promised it may be a large amount of our welfare budget but to be fair already paid foe by these people, if only previous goverments had left the money in the pension pots

No, they haven't already paid for it - they paid for the pensions of a much smaller generation above them, who on average had many fewer years drawing pensions.

@BendyTrendy tv licences are now payable again , they were free for over 75 but this has just changed again and they now have to buy one

And many of the people receiving this are in genuine need and vulnerable with no choices. But you are suggesting in many of your posts that this is for lazy people who have choices, and pensioners don’t

Exactly & it was up to £20 & in response to the pandemic.

they were free for over 75 but this has just changed again and they now have to buy one

I thought they were still free to those who receive pension credit?

Not all young people do. Some young people (ones with severe disabilities for example) have much fewer choices and are much more vulnerable than some pensioners

I'm willing to bet there are far more pensioners who can't work due to ill health than there are young people with disabilities so severe they can never work.

@Hardbackwriter they still have paid regardless , its not their fault we have a higher population or previous government's spent the pot, those pensioners also keep people in jobs etc as still spend the money and some still pay tac if they have a private pension
My 87 year old nan pays a small amount if tax ever since she retired and only was mortgage free at 70 , lives in a little flat and has a very small private pension then incurs tax on it

Just a couple of things to add:

Not all pensioners get the £179.50. DM (in her 80s) gets much less, based on late DF’s contribution. She does not get pension credit or a free TV licence.

DF’s occupational pension takes her just above the personal allowance, so like many many pensioners she is a taxpayer.

I’m on the “keep the triple lock and raise taxes” side. Unemployment is now lower than pre-pandemic, and some of this year’s pensioners will have worked or volunteered throughout lockdown. We are all in this together, and most of us will one day be pensioners.

I just feels there’s not much help for younger families

Really so free education until 18, free healthcare, child benefit, childcare help, pre school provision hours and so many claiming tax credits or UC to work part time, not at all or to live in expensive areas etc.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Not all young people do. Some young people (ones with severe disabilities for example) have much fewer choices and are much more vulnerable than some pensioners

I'm willing to bet there are far more pensioners who can't work due to ill health than there are young people with disabilities so severe they can never work.

I’ve no idea but what’s the relevance even if it’s true?

The point I’m making is both groups have vulnerable people that have no choices regarding work/income but many seem to think it only applies to pensioners, and that’s why they are worthy of an 8% increase. The working age group should still have the £20 uplift stopped because the majority of working age have choices. Despite the fact there are working age people who also have no choices.

We should be protecting all vulnerable people not just pensioners. Either we have better systems in place to focus on only the truly vulnerable or we accept that when it’s more universal we will also be paying for people who don’t really need it.

It's always easy to have views on proposed cuts to people's income when it's others, not you, who will be the losers.

There is one cut I really wish would happen though: to MPs' salaries.

I despair at the supposed logic of some posters supporting the state funding an 8% pension increase to significantly wealthy pensioners because they’ve worked their whole lives but support cutting universal credit to genuinely vulnerable adults and families because a small proportion of people may be lazy and claim UC instead of working, or increasing their hours or “getting a better job”.

I’m actually on the fence about the 8% in itself. If they weren’t cutting the UC uplift it would feel a tad more reasonable. It’s just completely disproportionate compared to every other state benefit or public funding. But i can’t begrudge the extra money to pensioners who are genuinely desperately in need. I can begrudge it for the wealthy ones though.

@Daphnise

It's always easy to have views on proposed cuts to people's income when it's others, not you, who will be the losers.

There is one cut I really wish would happen though: to MPs' salaries.

This is true. Much needed perspective. Thanks.

We’ve had austerity for over a decade now. Not easy.

Amzing! argue amongst our selves on which vulnerable group should take a financial cut, whilst the number of millionaires and billionaires increase in the UK.