To feel mean thinking it's reasonable for the pension triple lock to be broken?

[BendyTrendy]

Tricky one because our state pensions are lower than the rest of the EU, but also the largest area of welfare spending (at about 42% of the welfare budget).

Still, on balance, I think it's reasonable to break the triple lock under the circumstances of both Brexit and Covid recovery.

Can the country justify an 8% rise to the state pension under the circumstances? Is the triple lock on pensions sustainable? I feel mean even asking the questions, but tough choices must be made.

Boris Johnson signals 'triple lock' on pensions could be broken amid estimates of 8% rise

State pension predicted to rise by 8%

Rishi Sunak hints at suspension to pension triple lock

Tough one.

But why do people say pensioners not getting the 8% would mean their income was being cut? They wouldn't be getting a big bonus from other people's incomes going down due to covid but that's not the same thing at all. Or are people assuming the choice is between going with the statistical anomaly and giving an 8% rise or freezing pensions - I don't see why they should be the only choices? You could just make it double lock of CPI or 2.5%, whichever is higher, this year so pensioners wouldn't lose out, they just wouldn't actively profit from covid.

@Hardbackwriter

But why do people say pensioners not getting the 8% would mean their income was being cut? They wouldn't be getting a big bonus from other people's incomes going down due to covid but that's not the same thing at all. Or are people assuming the choice is between going with the statistical anomaly and giving an 8% rise or freezing pensions - I don't see why they should be the only choices? You could just make it double lock of CPI or 2.5%, whichever is higher, this year so pensioners wouldn't lose out, they just wouldn't actively profit from covid.

I do agree that it shouldn't be 8% necessarily, but some views on this thread are really grim. The karma one is appalling, I can't believe that's okay but other posts and threads get taken down for a lot less.

@worriedatthemoment

Just increase as promised it may be a large amount of our welfare budget but to be fair already paid foe by these people, if only previous goverments had left the money in the pension pots

Most people don’t pay in anywhere near as much as they take out. Lots of people can get full state pension without paying any NIC at all!

@jasjas1973

Amzing! argue amongst our selves on which vulnerable group should take a financial cut, whilst the number of millionaires and billionaires increase in the UK.

One of the best memes I've seen recently said that if Billionaires really wanted to go somewhere they'd never been before, they'd visit the tax office before outer space.

I do agree that it shouldn't be 8% necessarily, but some views on this thread are really grim. The karma one is appalling, I can't believe that's okay but other posts and threads get taken down for a lot less

I am reeling from some of them.

Lots of people can get full state pension without paying any NIC at all!

That's not true.

I am reeling from some of them

So am I.

We should just die off when we get to pensionable age obviously.

While talking about how people should have empathy. 🙄

@Floralcoral

Lots of people can get full state pension without paying any NIC at all!

That's not true.

Yes it is.

You get “credits” on benefits and when a stay at home parent.

You also get credits if your wages from each job are above the lower earning threshold but below the next threshold where nics are payable, I,e. One or more part time jobs each earning between £8-£9k per year.

@Pattypan Er, well lockdown was primarily to protect the elderly…
Plus I really don’t fancy paying more tax to pay for old people when 15% of my income goes on student loan repayments…
And yes I’ve voted in every single election since I came of age!
No it wasn't it was to protect the nhs. It was your choice to go to uni so it's your debt. Pensioners have already paid in for upwards of 40 years and for those who are now well off presumably they have been forward planning as you did by going to uni. Are you saying you won't want a state pension because your graduate job with private pension will be enough for you? Let's hope so eh.

You get “credits” on benefits and when a stay at home parent

For those of us who are now receiving a pension, that is just not true. That did not apply 30 years ago (the age of my youngest)

Maybe you are now in an enviable position then compared to us now on a state pension

@user1497207191 that's not loads of people, but it's mainly women. Do you think they shouldn't be eligible because the burden of childcare often falls to them? Or if they're lower earners? Within that bracket are many who have caring responsibility for disabled children who cannot work as employers don't allow the flexibility and/or childcare and educational settings can't always provide a safe and appropriate setting for them. Do you feel they should miss out on a state pension? .

but some views on this thread are really grim. The karma one is appalling, I can't believe that's okay but other posts and threads get taken down for a lot less

Indeed @Floralcoral I was appalled & then furious when I read @BendyTrendy's post about karma. I was going to report it, but then I thought - let others see just how utterly lacking in imagination & empathy the OP is.

I really cannot understand why all the young 20s/30s posters on this thread cannot have the empathetic imagination - or the basic intelligence - to imagine themselves in 40 or 50 years' time. Will they be talking about COVID as karma for the elderly?

It is appalling, that there's a generation of parents thinking like this.

If the @BendyTrendy were really concerned about fairness, she'd be thinking about this:

• the UK is one of the richest countries in the world;
• the issue is not of lack of funds, it's about distribution;
• it's also about not taxing people/corporations who make a shedload of money in the UK:
• it's about politics:
• things like "austerity" were a choice a political ideological choice.

The OP might want to think about this, rather than attack her fellow citizens.

[quote Floralcoral]@user1497207191 that's not loads of people, but it's mainly women. Do you think they shouldn't be eligible because the burden of childcare often falls to them? Or if they're lower earners? Within that bracket are many who have caring responsibility for disabled children who cannot work as employers don't allow the flexibility and/or childcare and educational settings can't always provide a safe and appropriate setting for them. Do you feel they should miss out on a state pension? .[/quote]
No I’ve no problem with it at all, just pointing out that not everyone has paid years of NIC to get their state pension and it’s more common than you think.

@ShortBacknSides

but some views on this thread are really grim. The karma one is appalling, I can't believe that's okay but other posts and threads get taken down for a lot less

Indeed @Floralcoral I was appalled & then furious when I read @BendyTrendy's post about karma. I was going to report it, but then I thought - let others see just how utterly lacking in imagination & empathy the OP is.

I really cannot understand why all the young 20s/30s posters on this thread cannot have the empathetic imagination - or the basic intelligence - to imagine themselves in 40 or 50 years' time. Will they be talking about COVID as karma for the elderly?

It is appalling, that there's a generation of parents thinking like this.

If the @BendyTrendy were really concerned about fairness, she'd be thinking about this:

• the UK is one of the richest countries in the world;
• the issue is not of lack of funds, it's about distribution;
• it's also about not taxing people/corporations who make a shedload of money in the UK:
• it's about politics:
• things like "austerity" were a choice a political ideological choice.

The OP might want to think about this, rather than attack her fellow citizens.

The uk isn’t one of the richest. We have crippling debt and are paying more in interest on that national debt than we spend on education. We’re just borrowing to maintain the illusion we’re rich.

@MarianneUnfaithful
Just for the record, you do realise that I didn't make the comment below?

This is an unpopular view, but it is factual that the elderly are also in the group most likely to die. They’ve had their time. Covid just speeded up the inevitable process. Maybe nature had a way of telling us that we can’t continue living unnaturally long lives anymore. It’s unsustainable for the planet, it’s resources and the welfare budget*

I merely responded to it to say it was disgusting and truly vile.

Bold text fail, but hopefully you get the gist!

Most people don’t pay in anywhere near as much as they take out.

I remember reading somewhere that actuarially, anyone who has a child takes out more than they put in. So the system works by that child putting in, and so on ...

My Dad is 88 lives in a council bungalow because he never earned enough to buy a house. He has (a) never voted Tory in his life, (b) voted Remain, (c) relies on the state pension, (d) now has to pay for his TV licence since the free licence was taken away by the Tories.

Does he deserve the "karma" of Covid, which has effectively marooned him in his house since March 2020?

@BendyTrendy - you have a lot of opinions about the lack of 'worthiness' of the elderly as an amorphous mass. You might like to remember that 'age' is a protected characteristic...

I just said you can't generalise and say young people have choices & pensioners don't
No you can't say that all young people have options and no pensioners do. I actually said that already if you read properly. You can however say that comparing the two, the former do have more options than the latter. It is a bit pointless to try to discuss each and everything individual specific circumstances.

And many of the people receiving this are in genuine need and vulnerable with no choices. But you are suggesting in many of your posts that this is for lazy people who have choices, and pensioners don’t
Talk about twisting words!! I mentioned the issue of tax credits as a response to a poster who was stating that young families never get a look into. They do and this is evidence that they are. I am in no way making assertions that it wasn't justified. Twisting things to suit your agenda doesn't help the discussion.

Agree with shortback

I really cannot understand why all the young 20s/30s posters on this thread cannot have the empathetic imagination - or the basic intelligence - to imagine themselves in 40 or 50 years' time. Will they be talking about COVID as karma for the elderly It is appalling, that there's a generation of parents thinking like this.

We will all be old at some point. What you're saying is that those who didn't or weren't able to have a private pension during their working life should live in some sort of poverty where they can't afford anything other than very basic food.

I don't know how people would afford rent and bills on the basic pension. I assume they must get housing benefit.

Lots of young people are finding it hard to get on housing ladder which must be awful. However lots of young people drive expensive cars on credit, go out for food, order take outs on deliveroo, get Uber on a night out, have sky TV, decent phones. I don't think people of retirement age would have been able to afford those things. So it's about priorities. Years ago putting into a pension was a priority, as was saving for a house. I don't see why these people should be penalised for being frugal.

@ShortBacknSides

Spot on with your post

I despair at the supposed logic of some posters supporting the state funding an 8% pension increase to significantly wealthy pensioners because they’ve worked their whole lives but support cutting universal credit to genuinely vulnerable adults and families because a small proportion of people may be lazy and claim UC instead of working, or increasing their hours or “getting a better job”
Again totally twisting what has been said. No-one has mentioned anything about younger people being lazy. It's not about being hardworking vs being lazy, it is, again about options. Young people have more choices they can make to change their financial circumstances longer term. Pensioners don't. That's it, nothing more than this.

I personally despair at younger people thinking that everything has to be about them and resenting anyone else getting something because they think that every extra should go to them as they are convinced they are somehow more deserving.

Talk about twisting words!! I mentioned the issue of tax credits as a response to a poster who was stating that young families never get a look into. They do and this is evidence that they are. I am in no way making assertions that it wasn't justified. Twisting things to suit your agenda doesn't help the discussion.

Unless I’ve mistaken you for another poster (too many pages to go back and check) you’ve said a number of times that working age people have choices when pensioners don’t, that working age people choose to work part time or could make different choices to increase their income. How have I twisted your words? What exactly are you suggesting about universal/tax credits when you make these comments?

If it wasn’t you and another poster then I apologise. But there have been a number of posts making comments like that.

saywhatn

Lots of young people had furlough which was money for doing nothing. I had to work all through - it's the way it is.

I'm just making the point that not all young people have been screwed over. Many have received money for doing nothing due to furlough. But then resent retired people getting a pension. I'm sure lots were getting more than £179/week on furlough.