To feel mean thinking it's reasonable for the pension triple lock to be broken?

[BendyTrendy]

Tricky one because our state pensions are lower than the rest of the EU, but also the largest area of welfare spending (at about 42% of the welfare budget).

Still, on balance, I think it's reasonable to break the triple lock under the circumstances of both Brexit and Covid recovery.

Can the country justify an 8% rise to the state pension under the circumstances? Is the triple lock on pensions sustainable? I feel mean even asking the questions, but tough choices must be made.

Boris Johnson signals 'triple lock' on pensions could be broken amid estimates of 8% rise

State pension predicted to rise by 8%

Rishi Sunak hints at suspension to pension triple lock

Tough one.

Yabu our pensions are ridiculously low. Why does most of Europe do so much better.

People reliant on the state pension are on (very low) fixed incomes, so taking away the triple lock risks pension increases not keeping up with inflation - resulting in pensioners potentially not being able to afford food and fuel, especially given the significant rises these are seeing presently.

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld I agree they’re low, which is why it’s tricky. The problem is that we can’t afford a triple lock under the circumstances. Can we?

I would see this as an indication that inflation is rising and about to rise further. We will all struggle, people with no way to up their income such as state pensioners therefore need the increase.

If we can't afford to pay a pension high enough that pensioners can all afford food and heating, we need to look at how to raise tax take. Not cut pensions.

@MrsTulipTattsyrup your statement is true for everyone who relies on any form of benefits and they have endured over a decade of benefits freeze so not a below inflation rise but no rise at all. Please think about that and also think about the fact that pensioners have been protected from that freeze and still got inflation or above increases every year, if benefits had gone up by inflation (all they ever went up by) instead of trying to survive on £72 per week (not including the £20 uplift per claim not person) it would be almost £130 per week.
Something has to give and the working poor can not give anymore it's time for the pensioners to give something up and an 8% rise is not acceptable especially when nurses are only getting 3%(with government spin/caveats)

If we can only afford to award nurses a 3% pay rise then we definitely can’t afford to be giving pensioners an extra 8%.

Mixed feelings, as I have family members that rely on the state pension.

Obviously 8% seems a bit much, but there is obviously s lot of inflation around.

I think previously the UK had some of the best private pensions, but in many cases (for private sector companies at least) that has now gone, so many people will be relying on the state pension.

It's not really true that we have the lowest pensions in Europe:

fullfact.org/europe/pensioners-eu-uk/

Given the 8% average earning growth is an obvious anomaly caused by a large number of (working) people being on 80% or less of their normal salary last year and mostly back at normal levels this year, I think it would very reasonable to drop to a “double lock” of inflation or 2.5% for this year.

If the tories are willing to upset pensioners I expect we’ll all be paying a hefty cost one way or the other.

I agree with you. If I felt that welfare spending was been distributed evenly amongst all of the population, I wouldn’t begrudge a pension rise. But it seems like everybody else, especially the young, are cast aside in pursuit of the grey, Daily Mail-reading vote.

[quote Cabinfever10]@MrsTulipTattsyrup your statement is true for everyone who relies on any form of benefits and they have endured over a decade of benefits freeze so not a below inflation rise but no rise at all. Please think about that and also think about the fact that pensioners have been protected from that freeze and still got inflation or above increases every year, if benefits had gone up by inflation (all they ever went up by) instead of trying to survive on £72 per week (not including the £20 uplift per claim not person) it would be almost £130 per week.
Something has to give and the working poor can not give anymore it's time for the pensioners to give something up and an 8% rise is not acceptable especially when nurses are only getting 3%(with government spin/caveats)[/quote]
That’s a fair assessment.

It will upset a lot of Tory voters (who are statistically likely to be pensioners) but they Tories probably know they’re safe enough to get away with upsetting some voters. The circumstances makes it understandable.

If the Tories are now so desperate that they're willing to upset the pensioners, it's obviously their turn to announce that there is no money left.

Given the 8% average earning growth is an obvious anomaly caused by a large number of (working) people being on 80% or less of their normal salary last year and mostly back at normal levels this year, I think it would very reasonable to drop to a “double lock” of inflation or 2.5% for this year.

It sounds like the problem is with the way they calculate it. Instead of looking at each year in isolation, what they should do is go back to the date it was introduced and ensure the total uplift since then is not less than inflation or earnings or 2.5% per year.

@MsMoody

I agree with you. If I felt that welfare spending was been distributed evenly amongst all of the population, I wouldn’t begrudge a pension rise. But it seems like everybody else, especially the young, are cast aside in pursuit of the grey, Daily Mail-reading vote.

I was surprised that the pensions makes up the largest welfare spending. Daily Mail doesn’t write about that now, does it?

@AnneLovesGilbert

I get the impression that Rishi Sunak has had this in mind for a while. It was suggested when the pandemic started. Pensioners might be Tory voters but the numbers show they benefit the most from the welfare budget.

Agree with @Cabinfever10 and @MsMoody.

State pension might not be a life of luxury, but many working age people would be delighted to have the income of the poorest pensioners. And lets not forget not all pensioners are poor.

I thought that pre covid, but post covid it is a complete piss take to expect the groups that have already made the biggest sacrifices to foot the bill so the group they made those sacrifices for, a group already the wealthiest as a whole, can effectively have a pay rise. Because let's not kid ourselves, it's low paid workers and the young paying the highest cost to protect the grey vote.

@TrainspottingWelsh

Agree with *@Cabinfever10 and @MsMoody*.

State pension might not be a life of luxury, but many working age people would be delighted to have the income of the poorest pensioners. And lets not forget not all pensioners are poor.

I thought that pre covid, but post covid it is a complete piss take to expect the groups that have already made the biggest sacrifices to foot the bill so the group they made those sacrifices for, a group already the wealthiest as a whole, can effectively have a pay rise. Because let's not kid ourselves, it's low paid workers and the young paying the highest cost to protect the grey vote.

Just had to look up how much it is. The full new State Pension is £179.60 per week, so about £720 a month. Not much, but many pensioners are also mortgage-free homeowners, free tv licensing, benefit from winter fuel allowance and free travel.

It’s not the best in Europe, but it’s not awful either.

It is tricky but no I don’t agree with it. Pensioners have generally paid in most of their lives, do not have the opportunity which working age people have and are not making a choice incurring these costs as opposed to childcare benefits, education etc. However I do think that is social welfare for the elderly were fixed then some kind of means tested benefits targeting poorer pensioners would be viable. It’s also well known that companies prey upon the elderly so while they may have more money they are in rates for gas, electric, insurance etc which outstrip those working people are commonly on - this is because many don’t know how to ensure they are on a cheaper rate. I wouldn’t mind our pensions being lower than everywhere else if we took care of our elderly better but we don’t and are still reducing their standards of living.

Yes, that's what I meant @BendyTrendy, comparatively it leaves a much bigger income. No commuting/ work costs, and even those that don't own homes outright are far more likely to have rent and secure tenancies covered by benefits than working age people.

Yabu

@Chloemol

Yabu

Why?

This table shows the effect of the triple lock over the period 2011 to 2021.
CPI inflation = 25%
Avg Earnings = 22%
Triple Lock Pensions = 41%

I'd like to see the triple lock broken and the main state pension frozen for higher rate tax payers. It is ridiculous that my DP who are on 100K plus index linked pensions from work get so much in bus passes, winter fuel etc and the triple locked state pension. I think that it would be better to freeze the pension and then add a top up benefit for those who need it rather than doling it out to all and sundry.

I also feel that the older generation have not been that affected by the pandemic when compared with under 25s. We have screwed the economy and stuffed our young people's education to protect the elderly and perhaps they should also bear the burden?

When's the next General Election due? Won't happen until after their voting base has put their crosses in the box.