To feel mean thinking it's reasonable for the pension triple lock to be broken?

[BendyTrendy]

Tricky one because our state pensions are lower than the rest of the EU, but also the largest area of welfare spending (at about 42% of the welfare budget).

Still, on balance, I think it's reasonable to break the triple lock under the circumstances of both Brexit and Covid recovery.

Can the country justify an 8% rise to the state pension under the circumstances? Is the triple lock on pensions sustainable? I feel mean even asking the questions, but tough choices must be made.

Boris Johnson signals 'triple lock' on pensions could be broken amid estimates of 8% rise

State pension predicted to rise by 8%

Rishi Sunak hints at suspension to pension triple lock

Tough one.

Pensioners also get about double the guaranteed income of the rest of society via pension credit even if they have never worked a day in their lives.

I don't begrudge pensioners a fair share of National resources but a huge increase like this is not a fair share.

It's also unlikely that the NHS will be free at the point of care for everything in the next 20 yrs.

They can keep it for me and if they have a private pension to top it up it's because they worked for it .

Absolutely in favour. My elderly relatives are the ones who have paid in nowhere near the same level as us (working as a part time shop assistant for 2 years, getting married, then having a 35 year "retirement" in 1 in laws case!). I love them but they have loads of outdoor space, disposable income etc, and a quality of life we can only dream of.

My dad retired at 55 from what is essentially a minimum wage job having supported us and my nonworking mum - we have so little family time and quality of life compared to them at their age, it's a joke. And uni debt and awful defined contribution pensions in comparison.

The working poor cannot bail them out from a lifetime of privilege - the stereotype of an elderly starving cold pensioner isn't one I've seen in my social circle. Of course they exist, but so do lots of benefits claimants like disabled people, for whom they haven't gotten enough raises. I would prefer to pay out benefits to the needy whomever they are and whatever their age - not elderly folk with assets and incomes higher than a lot of working families! It should be more needs based, not simply age entitlement.

[quote BendyTrendy]@jasjas1973

“But i think the biggest scandal is cutting UC by £20 per week, thats going literally going to kill people.”

I wonder how many pensioners supported the UC £20 per week cut, but will moan about losing the 8% increase in state pension?

Pensioners cannot reasonably expect compassion on the triple lock front if they don’t speak up about others such as the UC £20 cuts.

It does feel like divide and conquer politics, but there needs to be some balance.[/quote]
I'm guessing you have zero idea how most feel about it, but you're assuming that for some reason they'd be against it, very odd.

I don't think it should be cut, no, and despite some posters whataboutery, I think that those on disability benefits should also receive an increase and a guarantee for the future; there is the money, it doesn't have to be an either or as the government make people believe. There's a weird narrative on here that all pensioners are swimming in property, private pensions and disposable income- that isn't true. There weren't the same opportunities to pay into pensions as there are now, especially for women, and the opportunity for social mobility wasn't as great when many started their careers as it is now, or access to further education. Why they should be dipped into poverty because of the mismanagement of money by the government is anyones guess. Also to the 'they've had their time' brigade, you can retire in your 60s which I wouldn't say was over the bloody hill.

Rishi's income tax freezes for 5 yrs means workers will be paying more tax by stealth.

How the tides have changed.

Not long ago people were screaming granny killer to any alleged breach of covid lockdown. Now you're all happy for them to starve and freeze.

Nice.

@FangsForTheMemory - are you suggesting pensioners would starve to death if they didn’t get an 8% increase? That’s a bit ridiculous imo.

Also successive conservative governments have increased the state pension despite it being hugely expensive to get more votes and to reward pensioners (who are the most likely age group to vote for them).

@saywhatn

good point *@CayrolBaaaskin* I also believe we should make all subsidies eg prescriptions, travel etc means tested eg for those who get pension credit.

But until the difference between the basic state pension and pension credits is only £2 a week (for a single person) , are you seriously saying that someone who only gets £2 a week more than someone on pension credit should pay for everything, that £2 a week isn't going to last very long is it? , I would imagine the first bus fare will take care of that. BTW (in case you didn't know) free prescriptions start at age 60 not pension age

@SerendipityJane

Wasn't it a manifesto promise to keep the triple lock ? Not that it counts for anything.

Political, again.

Remember the Lib Dem’s said they wouldn’t raise student tuition fees. Then they got a taste of power…

Seriously, who speaks for the youth?

Covid earned the title of “Boomer Remover” at the start of the pandemic. Admittedly very distasteful, but it signalled how the youth were feeling.

What Is 'Boomer Remover' and Why Is It Making People So Angry?

We can’t support pensioners who’ve had their time at the expense of the youth who are yet to have theirs. It’s not natural or right. There needs to be more balance between demographics.

There's a weird narrative on here that all pensioners are swimming in property, private pensions and disposable income- that isn't true.

No one is saying that but for the richer pensioners they have seen much faster growth than the poorer ones, there is huge inequality.

@Oldsu I know when free prescriptions start & think it should be raised. Life expectancy is 79 I think so it's not sustainable.

This is no better than generation baiting.

Our state pension is indeed among the worst in Europe, and there's no point in quoting £179.60/week as only pensioners currently under 70 (men) or 68 (women) can get that much. The basic state pension is £137.60/week and not every pensioner even qualifies for that. We have 2.5 million pensioners who are so poor they claim pension credit, and an estimated 1.5 million who qualify but don't claim. You also need to factor in the cost of living, which is high in the UK.

And if we can afford to dole out foreign 'aid', we can afford 8% for our own pensioners.

@Starfleck you’re right I’ve made assumptions, but only because I’ve seen no evidence from that demographic speaking up against the UC cuts. Their silence is telling. The comments on the DM are also telling.

I mentioned pension credit because often people say means testing is inefficient & costs more but we already do it for pension credit. That's not to say the eligibility criteria shouldn't be looked at.

Remember the Lib Dem’s said they wouldn’t raise student tuition fees. Then they got a taste of power…

But they were the tail to the Tories dog.

Pension credit is not much compared to what families get. Its next to nothing.

This is an unpopular view, but it is factual that the elderly are also in the group most likely to die. They’ve had their time.
Wow.

Using an argument that some pensioners are not living in poverty is an awful argument.

And the people wanting more money for low paid workers now will be the same ones needing a state pension.

[quote BendyTrendy]@Starfleck you’re right I’ve made assumptions, but only because I’ve seen no evidence from that demographic speaking up against the UC cuts. Their silence is telling. The comments on the DM are also telling.[/quote]
Where would you expect to see evidence of them speaking up about it? Using DM comments as proof of anything is ridiculous.

@saywhatn

Where has all the money already 'saved' gone? I'm 59 and already have 40 years contributions. There are many like me. Whether or not pensions are means tested, cut or we're made to wait longer will make no difference to anyone else at all.

Your pensions are not put into a pot & saved for you. You can pay for those above you & those younger than you pay for yours.

I'm in my 30s & have paid NI since I was 17, I can't stop paying at 52 & no doubt my pension age will move further out.

No, of course not. I know current workers pay for the ponzi scheme. The point is that the issue of an ageing population has been known about for decades but the only solution presented is to continually cut what social security pays out rather than deal with the actual issue. Continually cutting hasn't solved anything. Cutting pensions won't solve anything. And once everything has been cut that can be, what then?

Please can someone point me at the comparison with other European (and worldwide?) state pensions? I need educating - I have no idea how badly we rate

[quote BendyTrendy]@atlastifoundit

“Pensioners cannot go out and earn more money, they can't get a second job, they are likely to have health issues which would prevent them from earning any money to top up their pensions. How are you expecting them to be able to manage?”

Do you say the same about the severely disabled group of people? Looking at the data they can’t just go out and top up their incomes either, but are expected to survive without the triple lock protection.

Maybe it’s self interest not altruism that’s driving the triple lock as well.[/quote]
They are two separate issues, obviously.

@SerendipityJane

Remember the Lib Dem’s said they wouldn’t raise student tuition fees. Then they got a taste of power…

But they were the tail to the Tories dog.

But they publicly defended supporting the Tories move on that. Lost all credibility and it showed in the subsequent election.

Without the student vote it’s unlikely the Lib Dems would have been in the position to be the tail to the Tories dog.

Tax revenue that's not income needs to increase but people don't want to pay. Look when Teresa May mooted paying for care in your home, people were outraged.

I appreciate it must feel unfair if pensions becomes means tested, but life is not fair. A lot of people are poor out of circumstances, not choice. Check your privileges.
Indeed!

It’s insulting to think a partner working PT is just for choice. If they have children it is reasonable that those children get quality time with their parents
In your own words, life is not fair, being at home or working part time to spend more time with your children is a privilege.

You can't have your cake and eat it. You either invest in your present or invest in your future. You can't expect to reward those who invest in their present and punish those who invest in their future, otherwise, you get everyone only caring about their present and so woking the fewest possible hours whilst claiming as much benefits as possible which clearly doesn't benefit the future of the country.