To feel mean thinking it's reasonable for the pension triple lock to be broken?

[BendyTrendy]

Tricky one because our state pensions are lower than the rest of the EU, but also the largest area of welfare spending (at about 42% of the welfare budget).

Still, on balance, I think it's reasonable to break the triple lock under the circumstances of both Brexit and Covid recovery.

Can the country justify an 8% rise to the state pension under the circumstances? Is the triple lock on pensions sustainable? I feel mean even asking the questions, but tough choices must be made.

Boris Johnson signals 'triple lock' on pensions could be broken amid estimates of 8% rise

State pension predicted to rise by 8%

Rishi Sunak hints at suspension to pension triple lock

Tough one.

Pensioners have contributed to the community more than any other group

Tough to make that argument after a pandemic where key workers have put themselves at risk and young people have given up their freedoms to protect the elderly

No it isn't, t's a statement of fact. And last time I looked the elderly also gave up their freedoms during the pandemic.

Mortgage free does not mean maintenance free
Cost of necessitys in old age.. health care equipment etc does not mean costs go down
State pension needs protecting & if anything needs increasing to a cost of living pension (I can dream)
Private sector pensions for the very averagly paid are are not good. Low.penstons will just equate to a swath of people reliant on top up benifits.

@londonmummy1966

I'd like to see the triple lock broken and the main state pension frozen for higher rate tax payers. It is ridiculous that my DP who are on 100K plus index linked pensions from work get so much in bus passes, winter fuel etc and the triple locked state pension. I think that it would be better to freeze the pension and then add a top up benefit for those who need it rather than doling it out to all and sundry.

I also feel that the older generation have not been that affected by the pandemic when compared with under 25s. We have screwed the economy and stuffed our young people's education to protect the elderly and perhaps they should also bear the burden?

Just because you have relations that don't need is not a valid point, top up benefits are means tested many pensioners on a fairly low pension have only a few £s over the pension credit amount so dont get it

TAX, your DPs on a pension of 100k will be paying a lot of tax, tax that goes towards working age peoples benefits including the furlough pay and UC that helped them through the pandemic, why didn't you mention that?? is it because you didn't know (which I am sure you did) or because you don't think it matters.

As a working pensioner any increase I get just increases my tax, the last pension rise was swallowed by tax, my pay rise and bonus from work was affected by the extra tax that I pay due to my state pension but just because any rise wont really give me much does not mean I want other pensioners not to have the benefit of a pension rise.

@atlastifoundit

“Pensioners cannot go out and earn more money, they can't get a second job, they are likely to have health issues which would prevent them from earning any money to top up their pensions. How are you expecting them to be able to manage?”

Do you say the same about the severely disabled group of people? Looking at the data they can’t just go out and top up their incomes either, but are expected to survive without the triple lock protection.

Maybe it’s self interest not altruism that’s driving the triple lock as well.

@NakedAttraction

If we can only afford to award nurses a 3% pay rise then we definitely can’t afford to be giving pensioners an extra 8%.

You're not serious are you?

State pension is £137.60 per week. That's £7155.20 a year. 8% is a rise of £572 a year.

There are over 300,000 nurses on salaries of tens of thousands a year with an 8% rise each and you think that is affordable.

The starting salary for a brand new nurse is £24,907 so they are all on salaries of tens of thousands each. An 8% rise for 300k employees on starting salaries of £25k and you think that is a comparison to the state pension. 🤦🏼‍♀️

I'll get flamed for this but there are also loads of people on benefits who aren't working but could be and just don't want to. Pensioners can't work anymore and don't have a choice

@ActonSquirrel “I'll get flamed for this but there are also loads of people on benefits who aren't working but could be and just don't want to. Pensioners can't work anymore and don't have a choice.”

The issue is that the pensioners are the largest expense of the welfare budget already. They cost about £111 billion or 42% of yeh budget. In comparison the ones on benefits who aren’t working but could be are in a minority.

Welfare spending

Yes I’m serious @ActonSquirrel. There are plenty of pensioners doing just fine. They don’t all need an 8% increase. I’d much rather see more means testing for payments to pensioners, such as winter fuel allowance.

@londonmummy1966

'I also feel that the older generation have not been that affected by the pandemic when compared with under 25s. '

...apart from watching 1,000s of their friends and loved ones die !

Raise nhs pay by the same amount

[quote Mintjulia]@londonmummy1966

'I also feel that the older generation have not been that affected by the pandemic when compared with under 25s. '

...apart from watching 1,000s of their friends and loved ones die ! [/quote]
Amazing how people forget!

Imagine having 1000 friends and every single one of them died from covid! That would be very shocking…

@MsMoody

Imagine having 1000 friends and every single one of them died from covid! That would be very shocking…

😁 Well yes, but you get the idea!

Imagine being in a 76 person residential home and having 19 of the other residents die.

@echt

Pensioners have contributed to the community more than any other group

Tough to make that argument after a pandemic where key workers have put themselves at risk and young people have given up their freedoms to protect the elderly

No it isn't, t's a statement of fact. And last time I looked the elderly also gave up their freedoms during the pandemic.

The elderly didn't give up any income. Unless the 3 million excluded self employed/freelancers who lost their business income and got no support. Unlike furloughed workers who suffered a 20% reduction in income. Unlike those working in the worst affected industries who've lost their jobs/careers.

@Mintjulia

Imagine being in a 76 person residential home and having 19 of the other residents die.

Yeah, and a whopping pension increase will really make up for that won't it!!

@Caffeinemonster

Yes I’m serious *@ActonSquirrel*. There are plenty of pensioners doing just fine. They don’t all need an 8% increase. I’d much rather see more means testing for payments to pensioners, such as winter fuel allowance.

Yes, either means testing, or national insurance on occupational pensions.

No brainer. Give pensioners the money.
The government pension is an embarassment and a pittance.

Divide and rule at it’s finest. Get everyone riled up about the possibility that someone else is gaming the system and see them rip one another to shreds. Meanwhile, the real problems go unaddressed- things like tax evasion and corruption in government.

After all the country needs a new whipping boy. It was immigrants and the EU for a long time.

But the unicorn filled sunlit uplands of Brexit have solved all that of course and now it must be the case that some other section of society is the greedy ne’erdowells spoiling it for everyone else.

It actually is a clear indication of how this government, maybe country, thinks about its' elderly.
Not that we needed more, after the covid fiasco of how it treats the elderly.

You wouldnt feel mean op, if inside you, you know you are wrong.

You're not serious are you?

State pension is £137.60 per week. That's £7155.20 a year. 8% is a rise of £572 a year.

There are over 300,000 nurses on salaries of tens of thousands a year with an 8% rise each and you think that is affordable.

The starting salary for a brand new nurse is £24,907 so they are all on salaries of tens of thousands each. An 8% rise for 300k employees on starting salaries of £25k and you think that is a comparison to the state pension. 🤦🏼‍♀️*

Have you even bothered to complete the calculations on those figures you're hunting at.

There are 8.5 million pensioners so giving nurses 8% is a lot more affordable than giving pensioners 8%.

The wealth distribution in this country is massively skewed towards pensioners. They certainly don't need an 8% payrise.

I'm in social services and we've had no payrise this year despite working to keep vulnerable people safe throughout the pandemic. Frankly, the triple lock is an insult.

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

If we can't afford to pay a pension high enough that pensioners can all afford food and heating, we need to look at how to raise tax take. Not cut pensions.

^This.

The UK has one of the highest number of millionaires, just behind Germany, US and Japan.

There is no shortage of money here.

But i think the biggest scandal is cutting UC by £20 per week, thats going literally going to kill people.

@VariantL1130

The wealth distribution in this country is massively skewed towards pensioners. They certainly don't need an 8% payrise.

I'm in social services and we've had no payrise this year despite working to keep vulnerable people safe throughout the pandemic. Frankly, the triple lock is an insult.

Agreed.

Pensioners are protected for political reasons. It’s not sustainable.

Covid came along and didn’t give two hoots about politics.