That £4m on Latin lessons should be spent on a modern foreign language

[newnortherner111]

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/latin-state-schools-england-williamson-b1894202.html

Latest idea from the Education Secretary. Given that the Prime Minister has been in a Catholic church at least once, did he not tell Gavin Williamson that the Catholic Mass is usually in the local language now, and has been for over 50 years?

Encouraging learning Spanish for example would be much better and actually have a use in real life.

Of course but the stuck up private school bastards have absolutely no idea how the education system, nor the real world, actually works. Good luck finding Latin teachers when they can't keep enough maths, science or geography teachers. How do they expect to fill a timetable? Utterly ridiculous

Totally disagree, Latin is the root of all European languages so has benefits in terms of understanding the linguistic principles underpinning all languages.

Added to which it is a portal into learning about ancient civilization, literature, and a whole world of culture different from our own.

Nothing at all to do with going to mass! Surely you can see there is value in academic studies for how they encourage you to think, rather than just practical application?

Alternatively, ensuring that an huge number of children, thought to be in six figures, don’t leave primary school unable to read English may be a plan?

This is a stupid waste of both eneregy and money, but it is about appealing to a particular group of people.

YABU Latin teaches logical thinking.

It would obviously only be taken up by the brightest children. But to me it is broadening opportunity & democratizing learning to children who might not otherwise get the chance.

I studied Latin (at a state school) and still use it to this day with respect to understanding the meanings and etymology of words. It is also a good logical/verbal exercise, exposes you to some history and classical art, and enables you to learn many modern languages with ease. I am a huge advocate for it as a subject and I hope my DD is at least a little bit interested in it! The thing that kept my interest high was being a huge Harry Potter fan and all the spells being somewhat Latin based.

There should be both.
Latin (and ancient Greek) are far more valid and useful than most people imagine. Not only being the roots of many other languages, but also for teaching logic.
(I'm in Italy and teach English- but at a secondary school where Latin and Greek are taught- it fascinates me that kids who want to go on to do medicine choose our courses and not the scientific school- it's the Latin and Greek- and also that everyone says there's a big correlation between the logic and symmetrical beauty of L&G, maths and music.

YABU learning Latin is extremely useful for learning foreign languages. It's not an either/or. It's a real indictment on our education system that at the moment most children who learn Latin at school are either in Independent or Grammar schools. This will go some way towards addressing that defecit and broaden children's educational opportunities.

If they've got even a single penny extra to spend on education, it should be going on SEND provision. Otherwise that system is going to implode and take everything else with it.

My grandson is at a state secondary and Latin is compulsory for the first 2 years and is much more useful than some European language where English is widely spoken and the basics can be picked up easily. His mum did Latin A Level (at a grammar school) and then at uni, as part of her French degree, did a Latin module in French as part of the Erasmus scheme in Montpellier. It is a fascinating dead language and has given her a good grounding in understanding many modern languages.

I did Latin at secondary school for 3 years. It's stood me in great stead when learning other European languages.

In theory, I am not against the idea of adding Latin to the curriculum (my DD did Latin GCSE and considered taking it at A level); however, it looks like the Government plan to train non specialist teachers to deliver the lessons so it will be a substandard fudge. The money would be better spent raising literacy and numeracy levels.

Or improving SEND provision

@newnortherner111

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/latin-state-schools-england-williamson-b1894202.html

Latest idea from the Education Secretary. Given that the Prime Minister has been in a Catholic church at least once, did he not tell Gavin Williamson that the Catholic Mass is usually in the local language now, and has been for over 50 years?

Encouraging learning Spanish for example would be much better and actually have a use in real life.

Thing is, a good grounding in Latin will help immeasurably with a number of other languages, including Spanish of course. Also with scientific terminology in English, not to mention the etymology (and correct use) of a lot of common use words. So more Latin in schools would get the thumbs up from me.

Really...I ended up a solicitor

Latin

Affidavit - he has sworn
bona fide - in good faith
Bona vacantia - ownerless goods
Caveat - may he beware
Certiorari - to be apprised - in practice a type of writ
de minimis - about the smallest things
doli incapax - incapable of guilt
ex parte - from one party
in loco parentis - in place of the parent
inter alia - among others
mens rea - guilty mind
obiter dictum - a thing said in passing
prima facie - on the face of it

Ex turpi causa non oritur actio - a legal doctrine which states that a claim will not succeed if it arises in connection with the claimant's own illegal activities

Volenti non fit iniuria - to a willing person, no injury is done - a defence to Negligence claims that the party consented to the risk of harm

That is just a small selection of Latin terms used in law.

I mean when you are reading cases and judgments at law school and counsel's advices, they are full of words and phrases in Latin.

Law is a pretty common degree choice. What the heck use would Spanish have been to me?!

I did Latin at a state school and it was really interesting and useful - it covered literature as well as a lot of relevant etymological stuff and I valued that I could learn it without having to have a private education.

Not just law school in practice it is the same.

Latin is ace.

Excellent for grammar too.

They're going to train staff already teaching other subjects in the school. Hopefully with an aptitude for languages.

Hey Presto! No need for subject specialists, eh?

Is this another back of the fag packet idea?

Just need a few latin teachers

I teach a modern foreign language in a state school that offers Latin as well. I like the fact we offer both with one hour per week being dedicated to Latin and two hours per week to the MFL.

However it is disheartening to hear from pupils every week that foreign languages are a waste of time and why doesn’t everyone speak English etc. We work really hard to make lessons accessible and interesting with lots of recycling of high frequency words and skills based lessons as well as games, video clips and call and response activities.

We are still one of the most unpopular subjects. I think the GCSE exams are difficult and deliberately try to trip pupils up by tricky wording and semantics and this doesn’t help as it ends up not being a test of their foreign language skills but rather their ability to do a test. I’m just happy they’re investing more money in it full stop but until they sort the exam out and we can offer some kind of exchange I think we’ll continue struggling.

I did Latin at my comprehensive. I've found it hugely useful in life for my use of English and learning other languages. It's reductive to write it off as a ' dead language'.

Caecilius est in horto