That £4m on Latin lessons should be spent on a modern foreign language

[newnortherner111]

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/latin-state-schools-england-williamson-b1894202.html

Latest idea from the Education Secretary. Given that the Prime Minister has been in a Catholic church at least once, did he not tell Gavin Williamson that the Catholic Mass is usually in the local language now, and has been for over 50 years?

Encouraging learning Spanish for example would be much better and actually have a use in real life.

There isn't much point in learning a language which helps you to learn other languages if decent provision or take-up for those languages isn't in place.

@woodhill

Lots of English vocabulary is rooted in Latin, the Romans lived here after all

All the foundation words that you learned at your mothers knee are Germanic.

Milk, breast, cow, bread, butter, water, mother, father, house, door, cat, mouse, come, go, sing, bring, brought, sun, moon, rain, foot, knee, hand, finger, drink, thirst, hunger....

YABVVU.

There's actually a lot of crossover between Latin and mathematics, so learning Latin is a great way for those who aren't into STEM to learn things like logic and deduction.

@GreenestValley

Totally disagree, Latin is the root of all European languages so has benefits in terms of understanding the linguistic principles underpinning all languages.

Added to which it is a portal into learning about ancient civilization, literature, and a whole world of culture different from our own.

Nothing at all to do with going to mass! Surely you can see there is value in academic studies for how they encourage you to think, rather than just practical application?

Latin is not the root of all European languages.

Bizboz, not all language-learning takes place in school or university. Probably not the majority. It is often later in life when people need to go abroad for work, find themselves or a close family member in a relationship with someone from another country or discover an interest in a particular culture that they are truly motivated to learn. That’s why I think the specific choice of language offered to kids isn’t really the be all and end all. The important thing is to learn one so you know how language works. Makes the second, third and so on much easier.

And since the Roman world influenced Europe, North Africa and beyond in ways that are still felt today, Latin is not a bad one to choose.

I did Latin GCSE and 'A' level. I loved it and found it really useful for learning other European languages, developing logical thinking and understanding legal and medical terms. I would be delighted if my DC were given the opportunity to learn it.

@woodhill

Lots of English vocabulary is rooted in Latin, the Romans lived here after all

They did. However they left without leaving any real mark on our language. (Unlike our infrastructure)

We have words of Latin origin in our language through the Norman invasion of 1066.

Our language is not, however, based on Latin. It is Germanic.

So much ignorance about the origins of English on this thread.

I did Latin at school and it was a complete waste of time. I am a biologist and user Latin terms all the time but I've learnt these as part of my science training. Ecce Romana which were the Latin text books we used do not give you any grounding in science or law. Only thing it is useful for is answering questions on University Challenge and making my DH feel left out because he didn't do Latin at school. £4 million would be much better spent improving basic literacy.

I studied Latin and loved it, but I think it would be hard to justify making it a priority when funding is so badly needed elsewhere

My nieces and nephews have a poor command of English, far less any other languages

@GreenestValley

Totally disagree, Latin is the root of all European languages so has benefits in terms of understanding the linguistic principles underpinning all languages.

Added to which it is a portal into learning about ancient civilization, literature, and a whole world of culture different from our own.

Nothing at all to do with going to mass! Surely you can see there is value in academic studies for how they encourage you to think, rather than just practical application?

Absolutely agree with this. I was forced to do Latin at school a few years back and I believe this is why I picked up Spanish and Romanian spectacularly well when I learnt it to travel there. Its a skill that helps with all romance languages.

I studied Latin to GCSE (and got an A still proud).
31 years later I work in a medical field and my grounding in Latin helps me do my job every day

Disagree it should be another foreign language. It should be Computer Science. COmputer language is far and away more useful and relevant

I’m 32 and did Latin at school in a rough as comprehensive school. We did Latin as an addition if you were in top set languages to help with language aquarium and structure. All European languages stem from Latin. Our teacher was amazing he was like our grander. Retired teacher that just kept coming back for more. Brilliant guy

@mathanxiety

I agree with *@GreenestValley*.

Plus Latin is a very hravily inflected language.

It's an ideal foundation for coding.

I've heard it all now. I spent 20 years as a coder, interviewing them too. Latin was mentioned zero times. By anyone.

I’m undecided whether I think this is a good idea or not. I wish I’d had the opportunity to learn Latin at my (private!) school, but then I love languages. I do wonder what lesson will have to be removed from the timetable to accommodate Latin lessons - further reduction of modern foreign languages?
And maybe existing teachers will be able to teach Latin basics, but I can see logistical issues with that one too.
On balance, YANBU OP. I think it will largely be a vanity project.

I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get the same perspective and language learning skills from learning a modern language. And with modern languages there's also the massive advantage of having access to newspapers, film, TV, and to native speakers.

Of course but the stuck up private school bastards have absolutely no idea how the education system, nor the real world, actually works.

But GW should, his DF is a state school governor in a deprived coastal area.

The Germanic languages have links with Latin German grammar and sentence structure for example.

All these people saying Latin is marvellous - that it not the point. Surely you are not so silly as to think this is a meaningful measure?

40 schools - it is a tokenistic bit of nonsense so you all go 'how marvellous, they are giving us so much!'

Why do people fall for this utter shit? Schools are really really struggling, this is just a bit of gold leaf on a turd, and everyone is clapping their hands in glee.

I learnt Latin myself, that really is not the point. We need a properly funded education system, not pointless gimmicks that will change NOTHING.

Why not spend the £4m making sure the poor kids aren't too fucking hungry to learn properly.

Latin is the root of all European languages so has benefits in terms of understanding the linguistic principles underpinning all languages.
Added to which it is a portal into learning about ancient civilization, literature, and a whole world of culture different from our own. Nothing at all to do with going to mass! Surely you can see there is value in academic studies for how they encourage you to think, rather than just practical application?

Not sure it’s the root of all European language, but everything else….the timetable is packed to bursting with so many subjects, schools already on 2 week timetables to fit it in. We have a long, long history of a shortage of MFL teachers across the country. The teachers we do have are leaving en masse. If you want a subject taught properly, you need an expert teaching it or at least someone with some prior learning of the subject themselves.

So where are the teachers coming from? How is timetabling going to work with that one - because what will amount to one lesson a week for top sets does not a timetable create. What do you propose is dropped from the curriculum if Latin makes a serious return? How would you faze it in?

Just a ridiculous vanity project, trying to appeal to some cohort amongst the electorate, no doubt.

There should be money for MFL and Latin.

@lannistunut

All these people saying Latin is marvellous - that it not the point. Surely you are not so silly as to think this is a meaningful measure?

40 schools - it is a tokenistic bit of nonsense so you all go 'how marvellous, they are giving us so much!'

Why do people fall for this utter shit? Schools are really really struggling, this is just a bit of gold leaf on a turd, and everyone is clapping their hands in glee.

I learnt Latin myself, that really is not the point. We need a properly funded education system, not pointless gimmicks that will change NOTHING.

I agree. My state school taught Latin. Probably still does. Apparently around 10% of the 3,000 or so already do.

But let's all wank ourselves stupid over some performative bullshit whilst ignoring the real problems in education.

If you fall for this crock of shit you're a twat.

@chunderwunder Have you studied Latin? It's pure logic and the logical thinking you need to apply would be useful for coding.

Money for SEN, CAHMS and glue sticks would be more useful.