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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why people this Laurel the weightlifter will win?

410 replies

PollyPopa · 31/07/2021 19:30

She's biologically male obviously but also hasn't got as good a personal best as some of the other (biologically female) competitors

Just wondering, that's all! I don't agree she should be in that competition either by the way but nothing to say she will win since her personal best isn't as great as some of the others

OP posts:
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9
Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/08/2021 14:19

LH was clearly a stalking horse

Very true, but I'm not entirely clear on why folk aren't putting most of the blame on the IOC instead of LH (disgusting as that individual's choices are)

If you invite people to cheat then cheating is what they'll do, and a bit of faux regret about the regs "not being fit for purpose" doesn't cut it. This isn't some struggling local sports group but a massively funded international body, and gender issues are hardly new - so if they've not sorted it out yet, WHY haven't they?

BrozTito · 02/08/2021 14:23

Saw an artticle saying sex is non binary just now. When TF did they start sneaking that in? Are chromosomes transphobic?

TooWicked · 02/08/2021 14:24

I can only imagine what the other women in the competition have been told about publicly disagreeing with LH’s inclusion in the competition.

I like to think Emily Campbell remained as neutral as she could on the subject…

“She's a human being and she has feelings and she's qualified for this competition fairly like everyone else. The IOC have rules we all have to abide by. The only person's performance that I can control is my one”

Although honestly, I’d have cut the first sentence out if it were me.

DuncinToffee · 02/08/2021 14:30

@BrozTito

Saw an artticle saying sex is non binary just now. When TF did they start sneaking that in? Are chromosomes transphobic?
Funny then that the non binary athletes are competing in their biological sex category (women's football and skateboarding)
TooWicked · 02/08/2021 14:36

Just seen some footage and photos. I can’t decide whether I think Laurel deliberately chucked it, but I think Laurel is definitely trolling us.

To ask why people this Laurel the weightlifter will win?
bellinisurge · 02/08/2021 14:39

Deliberately chucked it. As predicted. A top athlete wouldn't fuck up like that.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/08/2021 14:41

Emily Campbell: "She's qualified for this competition fairly like everyone else"

Obvious question I know, but how?

If they're elderly (for the sport), injured and evidently can't lift anyway, what were the Kiwis doing selecting them at all?

PickAChew · 02/08/2021 14:46

@Puzzledandpissedoff

LH was clearly a stalking horse

Very true, but I'm not entirely clear on why folk aren't putting most of the blame on the IOC instead of LH (disgusting as that individual's choices are)

If you invite people to cheat then cheating is what they'll do, and a bit of faux regret about the regs "not being fit for purpose" doesn't cut it. This isn't some struggling local sports group but a massively funded international body, and gender issues are hardly new - so if they've not sorted it out yet, WHY haven't they?

Because they were probably led to believe how fluffy and nice it would be to be so inclusive of trans folk without even considering the justifiable anger of the female people excluded by their policies.
Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/08/2021 14:52

Yes I realise that, PickAChew, but in all honesty has nobody ever heard of the word "NO" any more? Hmm

When I asked the question I was thinking of technical ability - which it appears DH doesn't have - but if the Kiwis really did select LH on the basis of dogma rather than skill then they need their arses kicking

Polkadots2021 · 02/08/2021 15:00

@PollyPopa

She's biologically male obviously but also hasn't got as good a personal best as some of the other (biologically female) competitors

Just wondering, that's all! I don't agree she should be in that competition either by the way but nothing to say she will win since her personal best isn't as great as some of the others

Many sports have lifetime bans for people that have a history of steroid use as even using it many many years prior can lead to gains a huge amount of time way down the line.

The steroid in question is obviously Testosterone. Laurel Hubbard has a ridiculous advantage that has destroyed the playing field completely. Because of that fact.

I am totally supportive of the right to be transgender and I am totally supportive of the biological science-based bans sports have on historic testosterone use. The two don't enable a level playing field - which is a requirement of any sports competition - because a person who has transitioned at the age of 35 and has thus benefited from make puberty and historically high male levels of testosterone makes such a fact impossible. It is crazy that Laurel is competing in the Olympics on this basis.

Further, Caster Semenya, in a case I've followed for many, many years, is the case of a woman with very unusual biology (please don't point out the basics as I've studied this for years myself) who has been treated appallingly by the IOC. Seems that if she were a man who then became female, they'd have let her get on with it. Which is appalling misogyny in my book.

It's super important to support anyone's right to transition but that doesn't mean that everything then is suddenly possible when it comes to sport, because the testosterone benefits are just too huge for it to be fair. It is what it is.

Polkadots2021 · 02/08/2021 15:01

*male not make

FluffyBattleKitten · 02/08/2021 15:06

Sorry polka, not being goady but I was under the impression that Caster is an individual with xy chromosomes dsd. Is that not the case?

Janaih · 02/08/2021 15:11

A true athlete would be mortified with such a poor performance and full of apologies towards the rest of their team and country. Never in my life have I seen someone walk away laughing because they ballsed it up. Disgusting and a sad day for women's sports.
Huge applause for the brave women and men who stick their head out the parapet and publicly state on record what a farce this is.

Lordamighty · 02/08/2021 15:12

Caster Semenya is not a woman with unusual biology, Caster Semenya is a male with unusual biology.

FluffyBattleKitten · 02/08/2021 15:15

@Lordamighty

Caster Semenya is not a woman with unusual biology, Caster Semenya is a male with unusual biology.
Thanks for the clarification. That's what I understood it to be.
shallIswim · 02/08/2021 15:16

What are the kiwis saying about this? And LH's apparent couldn't care less attitude? I thought they were a proud sporting nation. I'd be interested in some insight.

GrouchyKiwi · 02/08/2021 15:33

@shallIswim

What are the kiwis saying about this? And LH's apparent couldn't care less attitude? I thought they were a proud sporting nation. I'd be interested in some insight.
The NZ Olympic Team doesn't let people comment on its LH posts on Facebook, but most of the reactions to LH's progress in this competition are laughing faces.

Most Kiwis are disgusted by it, but the sporting bodies don't give a toss. They've forgotten about the fair play they drummed into us at primary school.

C8H10N4O2 · 02/08/2021 15:43

Most Kiwis are disgusted by it, but the sporting bodies don't give a toss. They've forgotten about the fair play they drummed into us at primary school

How is that demonstrated though? Are organisations like SaveWomensSport getting any traction or is it like here where the media seem terrified to offend anyone and so say little or nothing about women's sport?

There are some sports where men and women already compete on equal terms, others where it makes absolutely no sense. There is room for an evidence based discussion on each sport but I'm not seeing much evidence of the evidence!

Its notable to me though how many die hard anti-religion pro-science "skeptics" are sticking their fingers in their ears on the subject of data driven decision making when it comes to women.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 02/08/2021 16:19

Laurel will pretend they are blind next to get in the para olympics. Apologies if you feel I am being harsh I just can’t stand blatant unfairness.

GrouchyKiwi · 02/08/2021 16:39

C8H10N4O2 Rather like here, the media is complicit, for whatever reason. I don't understand it.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 02/08/2021 17:10

@BrozTito

Saw an artticle saying sex is non binary just now. When TF did they start sneaking that in? Are chromosomes transphobic?
Because it was Hubbard who lobbied them and forced a decision. One they have already said will be re visited as it is not fit for purpose, out of date.

Who knows how they will revise it, and Hubbard will be very aware of that!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 02/08/2021 17:11

Sorry, that was supposed to be a reply to the poster who asked why the ire at Hubbard and not the IOC!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/08/2021 17:57

That was me, Samphire, and thank you for replying

I sort of gathered LH would have been busy lobbying, and it's why I said they seem to have forgotten the word "No"
Still don't quite see why the IOC couldn't have got their act together though - as I also said, it's not as if gender issues are anything new

Arrowheart · 02/08/2021 18:51

Hubbard is a disgrace. Walking off smiling. How on earth does she think her piss poor performance looks to the woman whose place she took??? Entitled and shit at weightlifting as a man and as a woman. An absolute disgrace.

Antwerpen · 02/08/2021 20:13

@ElephantOfRisk

Self identifying as either a 10 year old or maybe disabled? Or maybe they could self identify as a medal winner and just go straight to the award ceremony?
Genius Grin