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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why people this Laurel the weightlifter will win?

410 replies

PollyPopa · 31/07/2021 19:30

She's biologically male obviously but also hasn't got as good a personal best as some of the other (biologically female) competitors

Just wondering, that's all! I don't agree she should be in that competition either by the way but nothing to say she will win since her personal best isn't as great as some of the others

OP posts:
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9
334bu · 01/08/2021 19:44

Perhaps it should be a bit like the Paralympics with medically categorised events for a fair and level playing field

Unfortunately, even in the Paralympics where great care is taken to ensure fairness, a 47 year old male runner will be racing against women in Tokyo. Obviously fairness is not taken into account here.

clickychicky · 01/08/2021 19:50

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

Perhaps it should be a bit like the Paralympics with medically categorised events for a fair and level playing field and less cheating using drugs or new hybrid gender variants.

Women and men should demand fair level competition as otherwise it’s not sport but who cheats the most as with banned performance enhancing substances etc.

I'm not sure there would be enough athletes that it affects for it to be worth a whole category. But it might we worth it if there are lots? Otherwise the medals will be pointless.
clickychicky · 01/08/2021 19:51

[quote 334bu]www.womenarehuman.com/male-trans-athlete-wins-three-paralymic-gold-medals-in-womens-running-events/[/quote]
But their ID says they are male. This is so confusing.

Floisme · 01/08/2021 19:53

I can still remember the black power salute from John Carlos and Tommie Smith in the 1968 Olympics, so I agree that a visual gesture can carry tremendous impact down the decades. But I believe Carlos and Smith paid a heavy price for their gesture, and I don't think it's fair to ask that of any athlete, especially not women who are already being shafted as it is.

I think it's time for more former athletes to step up - to their credit some, such as Daley Thompson have already done so - along with supporters and consumers of sport at all levels.

DepressedDD · 01/08/2021 19:59

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

Perhaps it should be a bit like the Paralympics with medically categorised events for a fair and level playing field and less cheating using drugs or new hybrid gender variants.

Women and men should demand fair level competition as otherwise it’s not sport but who cheats the most as with banned performance enhancing substances etc.

And if that happens I hope a lot of non trans people identify as trans to get the medals! 😂😂
tillytown · 01/08/2021 20:00

But I believe Carlos and Smith paid a heavy price for their gesture
So did Peter Norman, the white guy who gave them his gloves

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 01/08/2021 20:02

I really wonder what drives and motivate those who are using or pushing the boundaries of current rules developed before these new gender identification and hybrid biological types materialised. What pleasure or satisfaction does it give to anyone of what ever self identified and declared hybrid non standard gender - to win against biological women? If these fluid genders are that much more physically capable than biological women why not test their sporting performance against biological men? Is there pride for a man beating a woman but claiming to be a woman?

Dancedancedancedancedance · 01/08/2021 20:14

How can anyone think this is reasonable? It defies intellectual and scientific reasoning...

Good for you Daley Thompson.

Even the trans woman golfer in the Fail yesterday participates as a male... She came across really well.

Personally I think there could be a third category or the transwoman may be competing at a disadvantage to biological males...??

How long before this BS is called out and the situation settles somewhere on the reasonable line...?

I only know one woman in real life who agrees with this...

Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 20:16

When they stop changing laws and rules without consulting biological women?

When there are no biological women left?

When biological women make enough noise on masse.

Delphinium20 · 01/08/2021 20:41

Good for you Daley Thompson

Even the trans woman golfer in the Fail yesterday participates as a male She came across really well

Yes. It's interesting to hear from older transwomen. The ones who are the realists seem much more comfortable in their lives and it shows in their confidence to be themselves while playing men's sports. Frankly, they are trailblazers for men because they show men there's no one way "do masculinity or do femininity."

Floisme · 01/08/2021 20:47

Sharron Davies - who knows a thing or two about being cheated is another who speaks out.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 01/08/2021 21:57

I think the true losers here are the genuine trans people who really struggle with their identity.

FrankButchersDickieBow · 01/08/2021 22:06

Yes. It's interesting to hear from older transwomen

Hubbard is an older transwoman. Hubbard is 40 odd.

There are no 40 something bio women competing because their strength is incomparable to bio women in their 20's when they are at their peak.

Lordamighty · 01/08/2021 22:27

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

I think the true losers here are the genuine trans people who really struggle with their identity.
No, the true losers are the female athletes deprived of their rightful place at the Olympic Games.
Porcupineintherough · 01/08/2021 22:34

Dont agree @Floisme. If the female athletes affected by these decisions dont speak up, their silence reads like consent. Yes there is a price to pay but this issue is crucial to the future of women's sport. No use hoping others will speak for you.

FrippEnos · 01/08/2021 22:42

@Porcupineintherough

Dont agree *@Floisme*. If the female athletes affected by these decisions dont speak up, their silence reads like consent. Yes there is a price to pay but this issue is crucial to the future of women's sport. No use hoping others will speak for you.
The bigger problem is that if they do speak up they will lose sponsorship due to being "transphobic" as the Trans lobby has cancelled many people.

Just look at those in academia that have lost jobs or been forced out.

Porcupineintherough · 01/08/2021 22:59

I'm not denying they may personally suffer @FrippEnos, that's par for the course. Look at the American civil rights movement, look at the Suffragettes, look at the resistance to Apartheid.

But if all the people who think this is wrong spoke up, rather than ducking for cover and hoping someone else will act, then this would be sorted within the year. The majority of people do not think humans can change sex, or that its fair that tw compete in the women's events in the Olympics. But yet we all sit round and hope someone else will be the cat.

Porcupineintherough · 01/08/2021 23:00

bell the cat.

rattusrattus20 · 01/08/2021 23:17

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SpringCrocus · 01/08/2021 23:18

Why do women have to speak up and risk losing jobs, funding etc?
This is just madness, why do women have to risk their livelihood?

MiladyBerserko · 01/08/2021 23:26

Calling males 'she' reads like consent.

It is not 'kind' to females. It is being complicit in this bullshit.

Porcupineintherough · 01/08/2021 23:28

@SpringCrocus because this is an issue which affects primarily them. If they wont, why should anyone else?

ErrolTheDragon · 01/08/2021 23:35

[quote Porcupineintherough]@SpringCrocus because this is an issue which affects primarily them. If they wont, why should anyone else?[/quote]
Basic human decency?

Floisme · 01/08/2021 23:37

I think the people best placed to speak up are the customers, consumers, supporters and nurturers of sport.
That includes us.
I don't think grassroots sport would survive for long without the invisible day to day support of women.
I said this on the other thread but I honestly believe we have more power than we think - the question is whether we're prepared to use it.