To think Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against other women

[Belle82]

I know I am going to get ripped apart for this.

I have no problem with the transgender community, that is your life/body and I am not one to judge anyone else, do what makes you happy.

There is something fundamentally wrong about a person who is biologically a man competing against a woman in sport as significant as weightlifting.
I am not taking anything away from women weightlifters, however when competing in that sport, a person who was born a man will always have an unfair advantage over a woman.

I am all for equal rights but it seems political correctness has now put us in a position that we will only consider the equal rights of those in the transgender community. What happens to the equal rights of all the other women who have worked extremely hard to get to the olympics who should be competing against biological women.

There needs to be clearer cut criteria on entrance requirements to every sport, to give every person the equal rights they deserve.

My heart goes out to all the other women competing who I’m sure must be somewhat disheartened about their chances of success now they are competing against a biological man.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

There is a great deal of evidence that says the gap between elite male and female performance stands at around 10%.
boysvswomen.com/#/
indianexpress.com/article/olympics/olympic-first-men-women-to-swim-together-in-the-same-relay-race-7430928/
www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/08/we-thought-female-athletes-were-catching-up-to-men-but-theyre-not/260927/

Would it be fair for trans sports people to have a 10% penalty if they want to compete in the gender class that they feel they are?

I guess there needs to be more awareness that people with this condition won't be allowed to compete at those distances in the women's categories, so people who think there's any chance this could apply to them don't waste years of their lives training. It must be a bit awful for people who suddenly lose their whole income stream (and I can believe that girls in that level of training won't necessarily have periods). The coaches have a responsibility towards those athletes, rather than trying to sneak them through.

They haven’t lost opportunity or any potential income stream; they could compete with other males if they wanted to.

If you want to express sympathy for people, maybe consider all the women who lost out personally and financially while these males were allowed to continue to compete and we’re vilified for stating they were competing against males, like Lynsey Sharp who received death threats:

www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2020/05/02/lynsey-sharp-interview-didnt-do-anything-not-sure-apologising/amp/

What? Difficult to converse with madness.

Oh, on that I agree.

Your entire "argument" has consisted of literally nothing but calling women spiteful, hateful, self pitying and now telling them to calm down. If you're not a very boring misogynistic man following a 500000 year old tradition of non-thought, hyperbole and stereotype in lieu of actual argument against women, you may as well be. (You are.)

There is absolutely nothing of substance in anything you say, merely ancient misogynistic insult.

In today's Times Martyn Ziegler, Chief Sports Reporter heads his column with the headline "Trans athlete Hubbard to be shielded from online abuse".
He concludes by writing "The IOC has guidelines on testosterone levels but its medical director, Richard Budgett, said that it is up to individual sports to decide the rules for inclusion". And then a direct quote from Budgett "The threat to women's sport is probably overstated".
If the medical director of the IOC is saying that the threat is "overstated" then it shows what a huge battle faces women's sport.

If you're not a very boring misogynistic man following a 500000 year old tradition of non-thought, hyperbole and stereotype in lieu of actual argument against women, you may as well be. (You are.)

Boom. 😂

What the New Zealand with one of the highest rates of domestic & sexual violence in the developed world? That New Zealand

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/11/new-zealand-domestic-violence-services-to-get-200m-as-lockdown-takes-toll

Yes very positive

^I don't have words for this, so it's pointless for a women to ever try and compete in the 800m.*

No, not any more, because males are now banned from distances 400m to 1500m. Nothing will ever give back to those women who lost out over 10 years like Lynsey Sharp, (see above).

But there is nothing to stop a male from competing in women’s 100m, 200m or 3000m up. Semenya tried to qualify for the 5000m but is just too rubbish. Nisonyaba is better over 5000m and qualified. Still a mediocre male and not as good as the best women thankfully.

I feel like laurel might purposefully not do well so that the trans community can be like "See! It's totally fair!"

And then it'll pave the way to be commonplace and accepted and then all the fake women will go on and win everything.

But that's just playing out in my mind

As in, it’s not pointless any more, it should be just women in the 800m now.

TalismanTate
@Talisman_tate on Twitter:

Quote:
If Laurel Hubbard wins Olympic gold in weightlifting we should give her one of those foil covered chocolate coins instead, tell her that it identifies as a gold medal

@dadshere

There is a great deal of evidence that says the gap between elite male and female performance stands at around 10%. boysvswomen.com/#/ indianexpress.com/article/olympics/olympic-first-men-women-to-swim-together-in-the-same-relay-race-7430928/ www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/08/we-thought-female-athletes-were-catching-up-to-men-but-theyre-not/260927/

Would it be fair for trans sports people to have a 10% penalty if they want to compete in the gender class that they feel they are?

There is evidence that in strength events the gap is up to 30%, so would it be fair to have a 30% penalty?

Personally I think that category rules are simple - female (XX) only in women's sport. The alternative of a handicap system is far too complicated and totally unnecessary.

Horehound, I did wonder that, but tbh I think Hubbard wants to win, not take one for the 'team'.....

Also, they won't like losing to a woman.

Oh, and we are "mad" as well. Sorry, "crazy bitch" is so much a part of the off-the-peg non-arguments against women that I barely even registered it except for the irony. Fish have no word for water and all that.

So we are mad, spiteful, misguided, hysterical, self pitying, doing objection wrong and everything else. Goodness, ladies, don't you feel blindsided by this? I mean, we have never heard this before, have we?

But there's nothing about us actually being wrong...

Thanks for starting this thread OP

You are definitely NBU

@dadshere

There is a great deal of evidence that says the gap between elite male and female performance stands at around 10%. boysvswomen.com/#/ indianexpress.com/article/olympics/olympic-first-men-women-to-swim-together-in-the-same-relay-race-7430928/ www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/08/we-thought-female-athletes-were-catching-up-to-men-but-theyre-not/260927/

Would it be fair for trans sports people to have a 10% penalty if they want to compete in the gender class that they feel they are?

Probably needs to be a bit more nuanced that a straight 10% for all sorts and all athletes (and obviously 10% hit for trans women and 10% gain for trans men) - but yes I think this is a lot fairer than the current situation

Of course they shouldn't. It's completely ridiculous. They were asked how they felt about criticism of allowing them to compete against natal, biological women and they said 'I can't allow the negative comments to affect me, so I just ignore them and focus on my lifting.' (Im paraphrasing.)

No acknowedgement whatsoever of the issues at all. Absolutely shameful. How can you look yourself in the mirror each day knowing that you go into every competition with an unfair advantage and there is nothing other competitors can do about it? They must be a total narcissist.

Wow, just so much ignorance and knee jerk nonsense in here. People, please educate yourselves before posting.

Please can you point me in the direction of the scientific studies that justify males competing in women's sport?

I'm just a mere woman so obviously completely ignorant on the physical differences between males and females so yes if you can help educate us why it is acceptable that would be really helpful.

If Laurel Hubbard wins Olympic gold in weightlifting we should give her one of those foil covered chocolate coins instead, tell her that it identifies as a gold medal

@reprehensibleme

Horehound, I did wonder that, but tbh I think Hubbard wants to win, not take one for the 'team'.....

Also, they won't like losing to a woman.

Yes, agreed.

There is absolutely no scientific evidence to suggest that ,by merely lowering testosterone levels to 10 times higher than the average female athlete's level, the advantages of having a post puberty male body are reduced enough to make fair competition with female athletes possible.

In this case the male athlete may lose to female arhletes , but only because they are twenty years older than the other competitors, their athletic prowess ,when competing against men, was never at an elite level and they are recovering from an injury which for most female weightlifters would have been career ending.

So, women have fought for decades to establish their own sports with very little support and funding, often facing ridicule and opposition, so that they could have their own competitions with an equal playing field. This was necessary because men are stronger than women, something evidenced by every human being on the planet from a very young age. And now, males of mediocre sporting ability are being admitted because they claim to 'feel' like they're women, although this 'feeling' is something that can't be scientifically proven, and when explained often boils 'being a woman' down to sexist feminine stereotypes, liking 'girly' things etc. Is this fair on female competitors who've dedicated their lives to their sport to reach the elite level, to only then lose out to mediocre males? How can anyone possibly argue this I right? I want every single Twatter who chants 'Trans Women Are Women' to come out and be vocal about their support for Laurel Hubbard competing against women, because this is just one of the logical conclusions that the ideology they've been following leads us to.

Yes it really doesn’t need complicated rules about testosterone, handicap, or whatever bullshit you might want to meddle around with. Women’s and girls’ competition should be ring-fence protected for females only. No amount of feelz or alterations to male bodies makes a male eligible.

They just aren’t eligible. Full stop.

Mediocre, wealthy, middle-aged, white man sees a way to gratify his own desires by stomping on people who can't defend themselves. That would never happen, apparently!

It's a total and utter disgrace. And I agree that this thread should be on the AIBU board, not hidden away. Shame on LH and shame on the IOC.

YANBU. Nothing transphobic in feeling sorry for all women who have trained hard for, and dreamed of, competing at the Olympics, only to be pitted against someone male-bodied.