To think Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against other women

[Belle82]

I know I am going to get ripped apart for this.

I have no problem with the transgender community, that is your life/body and I am not one to judge anyone else, do what makes you happy.

There is something fundamentally wrong about a person who is biologically a man competing against a woman in sport as significant as weightlifting.
I am not taking anything away from women weightlifters, however when competing in that sport, a person who was born a man will always have an unfair advantage over a woman.

I am all for equal rights but it seems political correctness has now put us in a position that we will only consider the equal rights of those in the transgender community. What happens to the equal rights of all the other women who have worked extremely hard to get to the olympics who should be competing against biological women.

There needs to be clearer cut criteria on entrance requirements to every sport, to give every person the equal rights they deserve.

My heart goes out to all the other women competing who I’m sure must be somewhat disheartened about their chances of success now they are competing against a biological man.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

Interestingly, there is nowhere near the level of hate directed at Laurel in New Zealand as there is in the UK

Well of course there isn't. It means they might get a medal.

nequals8.com/

From above website:
"N=8" denotes the number of male born runners it took to change the rules of sport for ALL female athletes in the world across ALL sports.

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) changed transgender participation rules in 2015 based upon a single flawed study of eight male runners who self-reported a reduction in their running times after undergoing hormone replacement therapy.

This is great video that is short and to the point. Perfect for sharing around.

[quote ViceLikeBlip]@NotBadConsidering I've just been doing a bit of reading, and it doesn't seem as though Mboma or Masilingi have been found to have XY chromosomes (possibly "yet"?) But there doesn't seem to be any suggestion that any of these DSD athletes are male, but rather what would previously have been referred to as intersex.

If someone is born unambiguously one sex, then it is clear to me that if they wish to compete then they must do so against members of that same sex.

The DSD issue is much trickier. I can't help but feel there's a massive dose of racism thrown into the mix. But I still think it's ridiculous that these women have been banned, whilst this other trans woman has not.[/quote]
They just haven’t made it public. But they’ve been banned from those distances specific to the 46XY DSD ruling.

People with DSDs are nearly always still male or female. Like Semenya, who is male, unequivocally. It’s not racism. It’s science, medicine and biology.

Interestingly, there is nowhere near the level of hate directed at Laurel in New Zealand as there is in the UK. And I do feel it is incredibly spiteful to tear Laurel to pieces, she is playing by the rules. Many people feel the rules need to be changed, let's talk about that instead.

Why not talk about both. Laurel is allowed to play. Yes. Any decent person would know this isn't fair or right though and abstain.

And yes, the rules need to be changed. Shitty rules based on questionable evidence.

I guess in new Zealand it depends who you talk to. The women I know living there are not impressed with this either.

[quote 50ShadesOfCatholic]@Jasmine11

The young woman that would have got a spot if Hubbard hadn't been allowed to qualify is from a Maori background

Hubbard’s selection has already sharply divided opinion, with some noting that it has meant that the 21-year-old Tongan weightlifter, Kuinini Manumua, who would have otherwise qualified, has missed out on the Olympics.

Except she didn't, she is representing Tonga.

Interestingly, there is nowhere near the level of hate directed at Laurel in New Zealand as there is in the UK. And I do feel it is incredibly spiteful to tear Laurel to pieces, she is playing by the rules. Many people feel the rules need to be changed, let's talk about that instead.[/quote]
Oh yes, opposition to men competing in women's sports can come only from a place of spite. No other possible reason. That's us told. Damn, you've destroyed us all with that zinger.

And why is it relevant if NZ is behind the decision? As it happens, I know a few NZers and all of them are against it. Spite again?

The rules were changed to accommodate people like Hubbard. She's not solely to blame but she is an active participant in the destruction of fairness and integrity in the sport.

But I think she's just spiteful against women.

Interestingly, there is nowhere near the level of hate directed at Laurel in New Zealand as there is in the UK.

Saying that Laurel Hubbard shouldn't be competing in women's sports is not 'hate.' Where is the 'hate' in this thread - or in the UK?

It's not hate no. We are allowed to question this assault on women's sport. More darvo.

But they’ve been banned from those distances specific to the 46XY DSD ruling

And to clarify: the XY DSD rule applies to athletes who have XY chromosomes, male levels of testosterone (often from internal testes) and who are androgen sensitive ie have benefitted from a male puberty.

They are not “women with naturally high testosterone levels”

@thirstyformore

What's to stop trans woman participating in the boxing or rugby? If it's ok for weight lifting it must be ok for contact sports?

If I understood the situation correctly, the IOC have effectively delegated the setting of policies on trans athletes to the governing bodies of the individual sports. So it is the IWF (International Weightlifting Federation) who set the rules alllowing Hubbard in. Other sports might make different decisions.

The only sports governing body I know of that has specifically ruled out transgender women competing with women is USA Powerlifting.

The “hate” is the ingrained misogyny in rule makers of sport who give absolutely zero fucks about the impact this has on one woman, a few women or all women.

And I do feel it is incredibly spiteful to tear Laurel to pieces, she is playing by the rules.

I don't care, morally he is completely in the wrong. Just because the rules say you can do something, doesn't mean you should. There is also something called ethics, conscience and being considerate of others. You know, all those things that are always thrown at women but men can get away with ignoring. Patriarchy at its worst.

[quote viques]@babdoc.
You think it will take 20 years! If this madness isn’t stopped now then in three years time the Paris Olympics will be stuffed with transwomen and people with DSD in women’s events .

And if that happens then the record books will be skewed for all time as natal women will be faced with physically unachievable aims and will never be able to win and hold national, world and Olympic records.

We already have the situation where the women’s 100m and 200m records set in 1988 by (alleged and very likely) drugs cheat Flo Jo Joyner still stand despite improvements in training methods, nutrition, running shoe design etc etc. That is disheartening enough, but the prospect of every female national, world and Olympic record - and not just in track and field - being held by people with a battery of inbuilt physical advantages due to their DNA would crush meaningful women’s sports and competition out of existence.

And it is already happening. Slightly different to the transwomen agenda, but still highly relevant in terms of unfair advantages, is the proportion of athletes presenting with DSD in women’s sporting events ( because of course this doesn’t affect men’s events) being already stratospherically beyond the naturally occurring percentage of people with DSD in the population. It appears there are coaches and national sports bodies out there actively seeking out young people with DSD because it is cheaper and more effective to find them and support them to win almost guaranteed medals for you than it is to set up long term grass roots training and support to bring on young female athletes who may or may not get distracted from sports and might even turn out not to be medal winners in the end.

It’s cheating Jim, but not as —the IOC— we know it.[/quote]
DSD's should be a category in the Paralympics. They are biologically detectable physical health conditions, that affect your ability to perform a sport.

@DrSbaitso

How do transwomen lower their testosterone level? Presumably that doesn't happen by magic? Is that not a form of doping?

Cross sex hormones. The reason given for accepting this is because in their case, they aren't performance enhancing drugs. They're performance limiting drugs.

Of course, the real reason is because it's the only achievable measure for them because the host of other advantages are huge, powerful and utterly irreversible.

Silly - when cannabis is also a performance limiting drug, yet it's also banned.

What gets me is, I'm physically disabled except I don't 'look' disabled, still if I were athlete I'd be barred from competing in the olympics and paralympics if I dared misrepresent myself to the committee and lie to get a place in the Olympics, not Paralympics, then discovered, oh I have a physical disability

Why does this biological male get allowance amd forced acceptance to misrepresent himself just because he was shit in his own male weight category.

Simple choice, transtition and give up competing professionally or love your sport that much you hold off until you retire from comps. .... oh but they don't. Their ego wants them to win against women because they were too pathetic to win against men.

Wow - this thread is filling up quickly. Good to see the 98% too.

Oh no are we being accused of being mean because we think it’s an absolute travesty that someone from a massively privileged background like Hubbard is happy to take the place of a woman?

Any spite here is coming from Hubbard who spitefully decided to compete against women even though they are biologically male, spitefully ensuring that a woman would miss out on their Olympic chance

Beeee kiiiinnd doesn’t work anymore

Oh and if you don't think men competing in womens sports is a sign of moral bankruptcy, how about putting men who say they identify as women and are sentenced to prison for sex offences, in the womens prisons and letting them share showers and dorms with female prisoners? Right, Canada, UK and US?

Hate?

What hate? Why are you framing women saying that something is unfair on them as a sex class as hate?

she is playing by the rules

Rules they campaigned for and influenced the development of

That's what I can't understand, who the fuck wants to win because it was unfair? Laurel obviously does and has gone to great lengths to have the chance

Interestingly, there is nowhere near the level of hate directed at Laurel in New Zealand as there is in the UK. And I do feel it is incredibly spiteful to tear Laurel to pieces, she is playing by the rules. Many people feel the rules need to be changed, let's talk about that instead

I hate this attitude. Its like dealing with a child who screams you that them and want them to he adopted because you say no to them. The IOC now admit the rules aren't fit fir purpose.

LH s an adult who should have enough of a moral compass to not compete knowing its unfair. They could have carried on competing with men. They know exactly what they are doing so that makes LH questionable in character

Being told no, is not hate. That's just emotional blackmail akd we see through it.

This thread should never be hidden away. It signals a massive bloody problem. For women, for girls, for sport in general and is not something that that is just for 'extremists' to argue over.

Anyone, women in particular that even rolls their eyes at this being a topic for mainstream discussion needs to go and have a serious word with themselves.

I'm going to start entering children's' competitions, I've always felt young at heart and really do identify as a 16 year old, you can't prove otherwise so I have a right to enter the competition despite my age, you can't exclude me.

[quote IAmNotAClownfish]@ViceLikeBlip if they were excluded for the same reason as Caster Semenya, it's because they are biologically male with XY chromosomes and probably have a "difference/disorder of sexual development". They may not have known until then, but I highly doubt it as they wouldn't have been having periods so something should have been flagged up earlier.

I've found that when you read "naturally high testosterone" in relation to "female" athletes they are usually male but it is being obscured.

Did you know that in the 2016 Rio Olympics, the medal winners in the Women's 800 metres were all biologically male?[/quote]
Can you explain this for an idiot, how were they biologically male?

Accusing women of being hateful bigots was a successful deflection once as women felt compelled to defend themselves. But we can see this for what it is, and the tactics are no longer working.
Questioning why males are in the women's category is not hate.
Males competing in the women's category is cheating.

Interestingly, there is nowhere near the level of hate directed at Laurel in New Zealand as there is in the UK. And I do feel it is incredibly spiteful to tear Laurel to pieces, she is playing by the rules. Many people feel the rules need to be changed, let's talk about that instead.

Yeah, women objecting to their sports being taken over by men rather than just rolling over and welcoming it with open arms is 'spiteful'.

Come on you bunch of spiteful bitches, why are you not 'being kind'?