To think Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against other women

[Belle82]

I know I am going to get ripped apart for this.

I have no problem with the transgender community, that is your life/body and I am not one to judge anyone else, do what makes you happy.

There is something fundamentally wrong about a person who is biologically a man competing against a woman in sport as significant as weightlifting.
I am not taking anything away from women weightlifters, however when competing in that sport, a person who was born a man will always have an unfair advantage over a woman.

I am all for equal rights but it seems political correctness has now put us in a position that we will only consider the equal rights of those in the transgender community. What happens to the equal rights of all the other women who have worked extremely hard to get to the olympics who should be competing against biological women.

There needs to be clearer cut criteria on entrance requirements to every sport, to give every person the equal rights they deserve.

My heart goes out to all the other women competing who I’m sure must be somewhat disheartened about their chances of success now they are competing against a biological man.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

Bryonyshcmyony

No, because a woman taking testosterone would be doping.
The answer is very simple. Exclude male born humans from women's sports.

Women's sports shouldn't be a retirement plan for mediocre males who can't make it in their own category.

Attached image shows Laurel Hubbard's scores are well within the men's range and it's pretty obvious that the women's scores don't come anywhere near the men's including LH.

The IOC and gender extremists clearly think they can treat us like fools. Well I'm not having it and glad to see so many other women aren't either.

@andyoldlabour

Bryonyshcmyony

No, because a woman taking testosterone would be doping.
The answer is very simple. Exclude male born humans from women's sports.

How do transwomen lower their testosterone level? Presumably that doesn't happen by magic? Is that not a form of doping?

@thirstyformore

What's to stop trans woman participating in the boxing or rugby? If it's ok for weight lifting it must be ok for contact sports?

World Rugby ruled it wasn’t safe or fair and males should not play contact rugby against women. The English RFU and others like the ARU in Australia have dismissed these findings - some of the best sports science research you’ll ever see it should be noted - and have decided there is no problem and males can in fact play against women because, “inclusive”.

Clearly, given my user name, I am a New Zealand Eric and I am embarrassed LH us representing my country. Wrong wrong wrong.

@ViceLikeBlip if they were excluded for the same reason as Caster Semenya, it's because they are biologically male with XY chromosomes and probably have a "difference/disorder of sexual development". They may not have known until then, but I highly doubt it as they wouldn't have been having periods so something should have been flagged up earlier.

I've found that when you read "naturally high testosterone" in relation to "female" athletes they are usually male but it is being obscured.

Did you know that in the 2016 Rio Olympics, the medal winners in the Women's 800 metres were all biologically male?

@ShowOfHands

It is not fair in the slightest and I think the majority of people know this. It makes me as angry as it does sad.

The vote after two hours backs this up: 98% to 2% and you always get a small percentage of people who like to be 'difficult' just for the hell of it.

@Dabo

What do you think the best solution is for transgender athletes? They should compete with the gender they’re born into? Not be allowed at all? It seems unfair to say Laurel can’t compete. Maybe there needs to be extra categories

They should compete in the sex that they are.

People aren’t born into a gender. They are born into a sex. Your chromosomes , in whatever XY combination you have, tell the story far more effectively than your feelingz.

There are lots of ways that our physical characteristics sometimes stop us from doing the things we want to do, people with colour blindness are excluded from jobs where that could be dangerous, clumsy people with poor co ordination tend not to become brain surgeons, there are not many totally deaf opera singers, if you have allergies to dog hair you probably won’t be a dog groomer, if you are scared of heights you aren’t going to be applying for that job as a trapeze artist. So why do some athletes ( I am not talking about Paralympic athletes, you know that) demand a get out of jail free card because they don’t like the physical characteristics they have inherited?

@thirstyformore

What's to stop trans woman participating in the boxing or rugby? If it's ok for weight lifting it must be ok for contact sports?

Are you familiar with Fallon Fox? A transgender MMA fighter who was allowed to fight a woman, Tamikka Brents. (Tamikka apparently didn't know Fox was transgender beforehand.)

Fox gave Tamikka a concussion and a skull fracture which required several staples. These injuries were inflicted in the first round, in just two minutes.

Tamikka said of the fight: I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right. Her grip was different, I could usually move around in the clinch against other females but couldn’t move at all in Fox’s clinch

@Shoxfordian

What do you think the best solution is for transgender athletes? They should compete with the gender they’re born into? Not be allowed at all? It seems unfair to say Laurel can’t compete. Maybe there needs to be extra categories

She's 43! Of course she's way past her prime as an athlete and shouldn't be competing.

Make a new transgender catagory - see how many of them stick around when they're competing amongst themselves and not winning over women. 43 year old transwomen won't be competing then either because they'll be beaten by athletes in their 20s and 30s.

It is absolute bollocks - I am an almost 6ft 2 woman = XX.

Have taken part in a number of studies on skeletal muscle as part of my work. I skew the results every time - I am stronger than the majority of women, better lever arms can carry, pick up and move what a lot ( not all women) can not. I was always off the chart on the womens study.

When compared to the mens results I was always in the bottom 40%.

My size makes certain things easier for me but my hormones and XX hard fact reality means I can not compete in a strength game with men.

If I am compared to men over 6ft my strength is in the bottom 10% but I am/was still very strong.

Genetically Laurel is a man and that is the end of the debate

• I am 45 yrs old and I would not beat the youngsters now and there is no way I would have made the Olympic team - out lift Laurel - not a bloody chance.

It is farcical (and I am a Kiwi!)

@thirstyformore

What's to stop trans woman participating in the boxing or rugby? If it's ok for weight lifting it must be ok for contact sports?

Nothing. The governing bodies have been captured by Stonewall and the rest. England Rugby have handed over women's rugby to born males despite World Rugby's in depth analysis and consultation with experts (including women) that showed it was unsafe and unfair. But evidently England Rugby's misogynists prefer differently so include born males in women's rugby despite the risk to women's safety. Quite shocking.

How is it unfair to say a 43 year old male can't compete, but fine for that person to compete against women?

Indeed. As long as the males are happy. Sod the unfairness to women. Most people don't get to compete because they're not good enough. The same goes for laurel Hubbard. The only way laurel can compete and win is by entering the women's category. It's like me identifying as a child and competing against small children. And accuse them or being unfair nasty mean bigots as I whip their medals from them.
Sounds like some kind of comedy show doesn't it. But this is the reality for women in 2021.
I don't want to watch men identifying as women competing in womens sports. I want to see the best of actual biological women and what they can do.

How do transwomen lower their testosterone level? Presumably that doesn't happen by magic? Is that not a form of doping?

Cross sex hormones. The reason given for accepting this is because in their case, they aren't performance enhancing drugs. They're performance limiting drugs.

Of course, the real reason is because it's the only achievable measure for them because the host of other advantages are huge, powerful and utterly irreversible.

England Rugby thinks broken female bones are a fair price to pay for validating the feelings of a male born person.

When female athletes have to choose between having a baby or continuing to compete without the effects of childbearing on their body, they are aware that this is just a choice they have to make.

I hope the transactivists and roll over inclusionists, sports bodies, corporations or others, are ashamed at the damage they have done to the trans community and to the gay community.

And mostly to women.

YANBU. And they are not the only one who has stolen a woman's spot at being an olympian.

I might finally be getting somewhere with my teenage "TWAW" dd.

She thinks Lauren Hubbard should compete because she's a woman, her testosterone levels have been reduced and different genitals aren't important.

I explained the other advantages that men have so she countered with the fact that there are always differences between individuals eg Usain Bolt might have greater muscle mass or bone density than other competitors.

I decided to go down the route of trying to stay non-confrontational but asking questions to get her to examine her own reasoning and see for herself the logical conclusion of her argument.

So biological sex doesn't matter, we should just consider individual abilities?

Yes (very definite)

So, does this mean we should have mixed sex teams?

Yes (a bit more hesitant)

So it would be ok if no more women won olympic medals because they would always be beaten by men?

Oh God mum, it's Saturday! Give it a rest! (I'll take that as a no then, shall I?) 😁

@cariadlet

I might finally be getting somewhere with my teenage "TWAW" dd.

She thinks Lauren Hubbard should compete because she's a woman, her testosterone levels have been reduced and different genitals aren't important.

I explained the other advantages that men have so she countered with the fact that there are always differences between individuals eg Usain Bolt might have greater muscle mass or bone density than other competitors.

I decided to go down the route of trying to stay non-confrontational but asking questions to get her to examine her own reasoning and see for herself the logical conclusion of her argument.

So biological sex doesn't matter, we should just consider individual abilities?

Yes (very definite)

So, does this mean we should have mixed sex teams?

Yes (a bit more hesitant)

So it would be ok if no more women won olympic medals because they would always be beaten by men?

Oh God mum, it's Saturday! Give it a rest! (I'll take that as a no then, shall I?) 😁

😂😂 That is exactly the way the conversation goes here

Oh god mum I don't know flounce

@NotBadConsidering I've just been doing a bit of reading, and it doesn't seem as though Mboma or Masilingi have been found to have XY chromosomes (possibly "yet"?) But there doesn't seem to be any suggestion that any of these DSD athletes are male, but rather what would previously have been referred to as intersex.

If someone is born unambiguously one sex, then it is clear to me that if they wish to compete then they must do so against members of that same sex.

The DSD issue is much trickier. I can't help but feel there's a massive dose of racism thrown into the mix. But I still think it's ridiculous that these women have been banned, whilst this other trans woman has not.

@Jasmine11

The young woman that would have got a spot if Hubbard hadn't been allowed to qualify is from a Maori background

Hubbard’s selection has already sharply divided opinion, with some noting that it has meant that the 21-year-old Tongan weightlifter, Kuinini Manumua, who would have otherwise qualified, has missed out on the Olympics.

Except she didn't, she is representing Tonga.

Interestingly, there is nowhere near the level of hate directed at Laurel in New Zealand as there is in the UK. And I do feel it is incredibly spiteful to tear Laurel to pieces, she is playing by the rules. Many people feel the rules need to be changed, let's talk about that instead.

@thirstyformore

What's to stop trans woman participating in the boxing or rugby? If it's ok for weight lifting it must be ok for contact sports?

Behold Kelly - happy to fold women like deckchairs

www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49298550

Transwoman playing in women's rugby team.

At nearly 6ft she stands out among her team-mates, and club captain Jessica Minty-Madley recounts a time she folded an opponent "like a deckchair"

And from the founder of the team: Brian Minty

He can't resist a joke, though, adding: "She's going to be a good, good player for the next few years, as long as we can stop her injuring players in training."

www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49298550

Theeyeballsinthesky X post.

But it still means another woman missed out, even if Kuinini didn’t!