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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against other women

999 replies

Belle82 · 31/07/2021 09:26

I know I am going to get ripped apart for this. Smile

I have no problem with the transgender community, that is your life/body and I am not one to judge anyone else, do what makes you happy.

There is something fundamentally wrong about a person who is biologically a man competing against a woman in sport as significant as weightlifting.
I am not taking anything away from women weightlifters, however when competing in that sport, a person who was born a man will always have an unfair advantage over a woman.

I am all for equal rights but it seems political correctness has now put us in a position that we will only consider the equal rights of those in the transgender community. What happens to the equal rights of all the other women who have worked extremely hard to get to the olympics who should be competing against biological women.

There needs to be clearer cut criteria on entrance requirements to every sport, to give every person the equal rights they deserve.

My heart goes out to all the other women competing who I’m sure must be somewhat disheartened about their chances of success now they are competing against a biological man. Sad

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Calyx72 · 31/07/2021 11:04

Trans people are (often) on cross sex hormones. Olympic and other athletes can’t take performance affecting drugs - they are banned and shamed for it.

How come transgender athletes are allowed to compete at all?

Bryonyshcmyony · 31/07/2021 11:04

But what I do know is that women's sports do not exist solely as a 'support category' for males who do not want to compete in the men's

Omg 110% this!!

Onthebrink87 · 31/07/2021 11:04

Absolutely not BU.

Gender identity / personality / ethereal feels should not equal a golden ticket into women's sex segregated spaces. Not sport, not bathrooms, not prisons or any other service.

Couchbettato · 31/07/2021 11:05

Yanbu OP.

Sex is not gender. You cannot change your biological sex.

You can alter big bits, little bits, your hair, your voice, your hormones, but you can not and will not ever be able to change your biological sex.

Categories are sex based. It's an absolutely unfair and deeply sexist thing they've done to open the doors to trans people in their opposite sex categories.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 31/07/2021 11:08

The only thing unreasonable is the world “other” in your question.

wanttomarryamillionaire · 31/07/2021 11:08

I completely agree with you! It makes a complete farce of the whole thing.

Lynnikins · 31/07/2021 11:08

Posting this with tongue in cheek.

To think Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against other women
VickyEadieofThigh · 31/07/2021 11:08

Sports are segregated by sex, not 'gender'. There are very OBVIOUS reasons for this.

Hubbard's inclusion excludes women who could have competed.

It's entirely outrageous - but the males get what the males want - every time.

Babdoc · 31/07/2021 11:09

viques, I agree it may happen faster than that - but by 20 years, every country will have had time to train up a generation of men to identify as women, and forward them through the ranks of local and national competitions.
And remember, they don’t need to be young - middle aged and older men will still be able to beat young women due to their cheating advantages of male physiology, unchanged by lowering testosterone.
My estimate of 20 years was for the complete destruction of women’s sport - it is well on its way already.

Dabo · 31/07/2021 11:09

What do you think the best solution is for transgender athletes? They should compete with the gender they’re born into? Not be allowed at all? It seems unfair to say Laurel can’t compete. Maybe there needs to be extra categories

They should compete in the sex that they are.

Toseland · 31/07/2021 11:09

Laurel Hubbard is a cheat. What other 43 year olds are just starting out in the Olympics?! It’s an insult to women and girls the world over. What happens if men are allowed to break all the female world records? No women will ever get close to breaking them in the future. Shame on the Olympic committee - what a joke they are.

ViceLikeBlip · 31/07/2021 11:10

@NotBadConsidering can you explain this to me? The two news articles I read said that the two women had never had their testosterone levels checked before, and that there was no suggestion they knew they were competing outside the required levels?

DrSbaitso · 31/07/2021 11:11

Jan Turner makes the point that the testosterone requirement was selected not because it is fair (it patently isn't) but because it is achievable.

DrSbaitso · 31/07/2021 11:11

@Lynnikins

Posting this with tongue in cheek.
Why? It's entirely true.
Bryonyshcmyony · 31/07/2021 11:13

If transwomen are allowed 10 mol of testosterone and women 2 mol, can women take additional testosterone to bring theirs up to the trans level?

If not, why not?

EishetChayil · 31/07/2021 11:14

If there are any women here who feel galvanised into doing something about this, I can recommend signing up to the SexMatters newsletter, joining a ReSisters group if there's one in your city, and venturing over to the "naughty corner" that is the Feminism sex & gender board, plus Feminism activism.

I felt utterly powerless and frustrated until I started to get involved with pushing back. Even something as small as writing to your MP or signing a petition is a step forward.

SixesAndEights · 31/07/2021 11:15

At 43, she's the oldest weightlifter to qualify. Of course she is because if she were competing in the men's category she wouldn't qualify.

DrSbaitso · 31/07/2021 11:16

@Shoxfordian

What do you think the best solution is for transgender athletes? They should compete with the gender they’re born into? Not be allowed at all? It seems unfair to say Laurel can’t compete. Maybe there needs to be extra categories
The solution is for them to compete in their correct sex class, while living however they wish outside of competing.

What's the solution for women athletes who want to have children but are worried about the effect it would have on their athletic ability?

How is it unfair to say a 43 year old male can't compete, but fine for that person to compete against women?

DrSbaitso · 31/07/2021 11:17

@SixesAndEights

At 43, she's the oldest weightlifter to qualify. Of course she is because if she were competing in the men's category she wouldn't qualify.
If she were a 43 year old natal woman, she wouldn't qualify!
Eyesofdisarray · 31/07/2021 11:18

Laurel must be laughing up their sleeves

BalladOfBarryAndFreda · 31/07/2021 11:18

@AnyFucker

Yabu to say “other women”

Laurel Hubbard is a biological male so, by definition, not a woman

Agree.

Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against women.

NotBadConsidering · 31/07/2021 11:18

[quote ViceLikeBlip]@NotBadConsidering can you explain this to me? The two news articles I read said that the two women had never had their testosterone levels checked before, and that there was no suggestion they knew they were competing outside the required levels?[/quote]
Their testosterone levels will have been checked, they would have been found to be high, then determined that they are XY. They were most likely flagged due to such dramatic performances at a young age. There’s no easy way to determine how they were flagged for testing but once they were, the rule that was brought in following the Semenya Court of Arbitration ruling was enacted. This bans males with 46XY disorders of sexual differentiation within certain distances. The only reason other distances aren’t banned is because World Athletics couldn’t produce evidence that other distances were affected. As a result, Francine Nisonyaba who is male, and was one of the three males who won the medals in the women’s 800m in Rio, has circumvented the rules and qualified for the Olympics for Burundi in the 5000m, a distance outside the ban.

All of these athletes are male.

thirstyformore · 31/07/2021 11:20

What's to stop trans woman participating in the boxing or rugby? If it's ok for weight lifting it must be ok for contact sports?

SixesAndEights · 31/07/2021 11:21

@Jackgrealishscurtains

What do you think the best solution is for transgender athletes? They should compete with the gender they’re born into? Not be allowed at all? It seems unfair to say Laurel can’t compete. Maybe there needs to be extra categories

Don't know.

But what I do know is that women's sports do not exist solely as a 'support category' for males who do not want to compete in the men's.

Rather they can't compete in the men's because they're not good enough!
morningtoncrescent62 · 31/07/2021 11:22

YANBU. The whole point of having separate categories for men and women is because of the biological advantage conferred not just from testosterone levels also from the enduring advantages conferred by having gone through male rather than female puberty.

The best way forward I've seen recommended is to re-brand the categories 'female' and 'open'. The open category is for everyone - so transgender women and non-binary people can participate in that category without being recognised as men if that's painful for them. The female category would be reserved for biologically female people who have never taken testosterone. Laurel Hubbard wouldn't make the Olympics in such an open category, and that tells you everything about the fairness of the present situation.