To think Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against other women

[Belle82]

I know I am going to get ripped apart for this.

I have no problem with the transgender community, that is your life/body and I am not one to judge anyone else, do what makes you happy.

There is something fundamentally wrong about a person who is biologically a man competing against a woman in sport as significant as weightlifting.
I am not taking anything away from women weightlifters, however when competing in that sport, a person who was born a man will always have an unfair advantage over a woman.

I am all for equal rights but it seems political correctness has now put us in a position that we will only consider the equal rights of those in the transgender community. What happens to the equal rights of all the other women who have worked extremely hard to get to the olympics who should be competing against biological women.

There needs to be clearer cut criteria on entrance requirements to every sport, to give every person the equal rights they deserve.

My heart goes out to all the other women competing who I’m sure must be somewhat disheartened about their chances of success now they are competing against a biological man.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

I'm pretty good at my sport but I'm not Olympic level certainly. I could do much better as a woman but I could do even better competing as a junior. But that would be ridiculous wouldn't it

[quote notagermannoun]If you have 56 seconds please watch this video. Not so much for the race, which was a foregone conclusion, but for the faces of the defeated female competitors at the end. They say what a million words can't.
www.bing.com/videos/search?q=cece+telfer&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dcece%2520telfer%26qs%3dLS%26form%3dQBVDMH%26sp%3d2%26ghc%3d1%26pq%3dcece%2520te%26sk%3dMM1%26sc%3d8-7%26cvid%3dC8A29585B5F742F08A8F3BB39B55DDD2&view=detail&mid=B06E6F8C36D913E7EB0AB06E6F8C36D913E7EB0A&&FORM=VDRVRV[/quote]
That is terrifying. Particularly the video that comes after that, the wrestling one and the TW wins easily. The woman could have very easily been seriously hurt against such a strong man.

@babdoc.
You think it will take 20 years! If this madness isn’t stopped now then in three years time the Paris Olympics will be stuffed with transwomen and people with DSD in women’s events .

And if that happens then the record books will be skewed for all time as natal women will be faced with physically unachievable aims and will never be able to win and hold national, world and Olympic records.

We already have the situation where the women’s 100m and 200m records set in 1988 by (alleged and very likely) drugs cheat Flo Jo Joyner still stand despite improvements in training methods, nutrition, running shoe design etc etc. That is disheartening enough, but the prospect of every female national, world and Olympic record - and not just in track and field - being held by people with a battery of inbuilt physical advantages due to their DNA would crush meaningful women’s sports and competition out of existence.

And it is already happening. Slightly different to the transwomen agenda, but still highly relevant in terms of unfair advantages, is the proportion of athletes presenting with DSD in women’s sporting events ( because of course this doesn’t affect men’s events) being already stratospherically beyond the naturally occurring percentage of people with DSD in the population. It appears there are coaches and national sports bodies out there actively seeking out young people with DSD because it is cheaper and more effective to find them and support them to win almost guaranteed medals for you than it is to set up long term grass roots training and support to bring on young female athletes who may or may not get distracted from sports and might even turn out not to be medal winners in the end.

It’s cheating Jim, but not as —the IOC— we know it.

@Zandathepanda If anything was a clear demonstration of the physical differences between men and women that was it.

It was a great race to watch and shows how being inclusive to males impacts women in real time.

@MsTSwift

I don’t understand the emphasis on “being inclusive” but the end result is actually excluding women.

I agree Also I for one am glad that you posted it here otherwise I wouldn't have known about it

@ArabellaScott

Completely agree with you and I hope MNHQ don't move this thread. It's is an important issue that deserves wider discussion.

Yep. It all needs discussed; that's all women have been asking for for years. But for some reason there are a small but very vociferous coterie of people who are INCENSED when women try to talk about it. I wonder why?

Agreed

OP YANBU

Thank you for putting this in AIBU

Did I just read it was unfair if Laurel couldn't compete ?

Compete as a male
Petition for gender classes in addition
Do what most people do and don't compete as I am not good enough

As far as I no there are no rules to stop transwomen competing as their sex.

If they're good enough then they'll qualify.

So any exclusion of a TW would be a self-exclusion based on their own choice and preference to compete with women.

It's ok for women to say no to a male's choice and preference to compete with the opposite sex.

And since when has elite sport been inclusive! The clue is in the name!

chunderwunder
Thanks for starting a thread for all the bigots to have a froth about transgender people, OP. You're providing a valuable service that they can't get elsewhere on Mumsnet and other social media

No argument for why you think this is perfectly fair then? Just run in, call people bigots and run away again?! Sounds rational….

If it makes sense for a sport to be sex-segregated (it doesn't always) then males should compete against other males.

If one male is allowed to compete against females, you might as well get rid of sex segregation all together.

Thing is it’s quite easy to brush it under the carpet when it’s just one person. What happens when this spreads to track events, team events etc. Will the prime ministers and sports ministers be so happy to give their support then? ‘Laurel is doing what she wants to do’ said the NZ sports minister - aint that the truth.

At least 12 people have voted YABU but only one has spoken up. What about the rest of you? You must believe you're right so come on, speak up!

YANBU OP, he's a cheat. He isn't a woman.

Funny how everyone falls over themselves to fight racism, and state that Black Lives Matter. But introduce a trans issue, and some people are suddenly v supportive of a privileged millionaire white man taking a place from a poorer woman of colour. Because he feels like he can. Disgraceful.

@Notaschoolday Thanks for sharing the video. I hadn't seen it before. Brilliant

Meanwhile Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi (young black women with naturally occurring high testosterone levels) have been banned. Apparently the Olympic rule is to keep your testosterone below 10nmol/L but in athletics it's 5nmol/L (1nmol/L is kind of average in elite female athletes).

How can women have been banned from one event, while a trans woman is allowed in another event? I don't agree with either of these two decisions.

YANBU
Laurel Hubbard has no morals and must be absolutely laughing.

What do you think the best solution is for transgender athletes? They should compete with the gender they’re born into? Not be allowed at all? It seems unfair to say Laurel can’t compete. Maybe there needs to be extra categories

Don't know.

But what I do know is that women's sports do not exist solely as a 'support category' for males who do not want to compete in the men's.

Absolutely agree, OP!

@MsTSwift

I don’t understand the emphasis on “being inclusive” but the end result is actually excluding women.

Apparently, it's fine to exclude women from realistic competition and we just have to play nice.

Very well said Op.

I know someone who thinks its a teensy bit unfair but that putting men who identify as women in women prisons, women's refuges and women's changing rooms and toilets is perfectly fine.

Does biological sex matter or not?

I'd say yes, especially when it comes to sports, but also when its about women's privacy, dignity and safety.

NB It's not just one person - there's a TW competing in archery for Canada too.

Why should vague notions of identity trump the material and verifiable reality of sex?

It shouldn't - but it does because men's vague notions of identity are taken more seriously than women.

@ViceLikeBlip

Meanwhile Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi (young black women with naturally occurring high testosterone levels) have been banned. Apparently the Olympic rule is to keep your testosterone below 10nmol/L but in athletics it's 5nmol/L (1nmol/L is kind of average in elite female athletes).

How can women have been banned from one event, while a trans woman is allowed in another event? I don't agree with either of these two decisions.

Because those athletes are male, not women with “naturally occurring high testosterone levels”. Like Caster Semenya, they’ve been banned under the 46XY rule.

The poll seems pretty conclusive

Funny how everyone falls over themselves to fight racism, and state that Black Lives Matter. But introduce a trans issue, and some people are suddenly v supportive of a privileged millionaire white man taking a place from a poorer woman of colour. Because he feels like he can. Disgraceful.

Exactly.

It just goes to show that everyone still knows who are the men and who are the women, and who is still in charge.