To not think teens should be “grateful” for things they really don’t want?

[workwoes123]

We’ve just come back from our annual camping holiday. It was not fun : the weather was crap, the activities we planned didn’t work out. DS2 (10) was fine - he’s adaptable, happy go lucky, likes a challenge and he (with DH) just made the best of it. DS1 (14) was a bit of a pain - glued to his phone, cbstantly chatting with his friends / girlfriend, didn’t want to do anything we proposed unless it involved eating out, was clearly bored and barely tolerating the whole thing. He wasn’t rude - just not engaged and clearly just counting down the days till we went home.

DH is really annoyed with him. He was brought up to be grateful for what you get - to enthusiastically eat whatever’s put on your plate (even if it’s horrible), to say “thank you, that’s lovely” for gifts you don’t like, to go along with what other people want to do - whether you want to or not - especially if they are paying for it.

Me? I can see DSs point. It was a shit holiday. The only gratitude I feel is to be back in a house, with tiled floors, toilets and actual beds. Yes, I found his behaviour annoying - but I remember feeling the same on tedious family camping holidays.

Which one of us is BU? Should children be grateful for whatever we give them - whether they want / enjoy it or not?

The constant chatting to friends would annoy me whilst on a family holiday.

I think there's a difference to being grateful and acting ungrateful. One should be gracious when in receipt of goodwill, no?

They dont need to be grateful for everything. But if you tried to plan something that was nice for everyone then they should at least be grateful for that. I mean, if he tried to cook you a meal and it didnt work out, would you put a face on or thank him for his efforts?

Being raised to pretend we are happy with a miserable situation has been really toxic for me and my sister as adults and we’ve both struggled with this is a variety of circumstances. I think your son should have been polite and not ruined it for others yes, but he should be allowed to feel his feelings and be honest.

@NutellaEllaElla

I think there's a difference to being grateful and acting ungrateful. One should be gracious when in receipt of goodwill, no?

Well yes to a point.

If we are in company and my child hates the food, they know not to pull a revolted face and spit on the plate. They eat the bits they can and say they are full from lunch, or don't feel terribly well. But thank them and apologise. I don't expect them to eat it. Just be polite.

I also wouldn't expect gushing thank yous for a shit holiday, especially at 14. That age is hard. Good behaviour and presence is enough.

In this particular situation, I agree that he doesn't need to be grateful for a camping holiday in the rain where everything got cancelled.

But if someone buys you a gift or pays to take you out, then yes, the polite thing to do is say "thank you" and at least pretend to be enjoying yourself. It doesn't matter if you don't like the gift or enjoy the activity - it costs nothing to be polite and say thank you for Y or thank you for taking me to X.

to say “thank you, that’s lovely” for gifts you don’t like

I absolutely agree with him on this point. That’s basic good manners when someone has gone out of their way to think of you and buy you something. The rest though, not so much!

I think what annoyed me was that when DH gave him a hard time, it wasn’t about being constantly on his phone etc, it was very much “your mother and I worked very hard ti provide this holiday, you should be grateful for all the time /money / energy we’ve invested even if it is shit ”.

DS is very good at polite refusals. He’s fussy with food but is never rude in his refusals. He will say thank you (for the effort) but no thank you (I’d rather not eat this). I’m fine with that: DH was not brought up this way, he was taught to clear his plate (and be grateful for it) irrespective.

We are not going camping again! it was okay when they were young, but we’re past that stage.

I agree that the gifts are a bad example. In my family, gifts are generally pre-agreed so the receiver is sure to like it. DHs family, not so much: they buy all kinds of random stuff. IA probably being U in this case.

No. I practically had to be dragged on holiday when I was a teenager - begged not to have to go, to no avail. My parents were holidaying for their own gratification and I had to put up with it, but I didn't have to thank them for it.

Fucking camping in crap weather - I’m not surprised a 14yo hated it! If I had to choose between camping and no holiday, I’d choose no holiday. In fact, we aren’t going on holiday this year but will do a few days out to places that our teens actively ask to visit. We’ve done one so far and they loved it.

I'm torn, because I do believe it is an important life skill to show some grace rather than sulking when things are not 100% to your liking.

However 14 is a graceless age, and I hate camping, and that holiday does sound shite. So I'm not saying teens should be let off the hook in terms of manners and appreciation, but I think in this case if he wasn't actually moaning out loud, I'd let it slide

Your DH is probably remembering the days when DS thought he was godlike and would have been happy just to spend time with him, and feeling a bit rejected. You agreeing that it was a shite holiday may also sting.

"He was brought up to be grateful for what you get - to enthusiastically eat whatever’s put on your plate (even if it’s horrible), to say “thank you, that’s lovely” for gifts you don’t like, to go along with what other people want to do - whether you want to or not - especially if they are paying for it."

This was what we were taught and honestly it was quite damaging. It's part of why I have to be such a people pleaser that I tend to gush over and thank people even if they've been rude to me or even treated me very badly. If I were cheated on or beaten I'd be likely to apologise for my inadequacy and thank my abuser for putting up with me.

I am fully on board with being polite and civil at all times and it sounds like your son is. I'm not quite sure how your husband thinks bollocking him is going to force him to enjoy things he doesn't want to do. It doesn't work like that, plus around his own family at least he should be able to be himself and be honest about his feelings rather than putting on a front and a mask all the time.

We all have fucking feelings but part of being civilised human beings is pushing them down and not being shitty to people who don’t deserve it. That’s the basis of how societies function and you just have to learn it. That’s a struggle for teenagers because they usually assume they are the centre of the universe but good ones get there in the end.

In a world where there is so much deprivation I think everyone should be grateful for what they have. If someone buys you a gift of course you should show some gratitude that someone has thought about you. If children are encouraged to only be grateful for what they like they will never be really happy.

I think there is being grateful and there is being polite. Granny buys you a rubbish present you suck it up, say 'thank you granny's and moan to your parents. Holiday turns out rubbish it's OK to say ' well it's a pity the rain meant we could do things' or even 'well that turned out rubbish' but not 'why did you book that stupid holiday'

@SharpLily

This was what we were taught and honestly it was quite damaging. It's part of why I have to be such a people pleaser that I tend to gush over and thank people even if they've been rude to me or even treated me very badly.

Snap, this is DHs whole family. Ask them a simple question like “what would you like to do today?” And they freeze in the headlights, paralysed by the possibility of asking for something that might put someone out or cause any hassle at all 🙄 drives me nuts! SIL has had lifelong low self-esteem and anxiety, she has been taught to put herself last always - that her needs / desires / wants are subservient to everyone else’s.

Sounds like my childhood.

It's why I don't do it.

I wouldn't have let him spend that much time on his phone.

Children need to learn things don't always go exactly the way they want. Learning to make the most of things you have/ get to do is a good skill.

TBH I'd struggle to act grateful for a camping holiday with shit weather so expecting a 14 yo to is a big ask. I would expect them to not sulk and not be rude but to enforce enjoyment, i just don't see the point. We would always decide on a holiday as a family though, my idea of hell is spending a week or two on a trip I wasn't keen on so I wouldn't expect my kids to, then on top of that act grateful for it.

I think it's different with gifts, you should always show gratitude if someone has gone to the effort however a family trip, I don't think it's comparable.

I actually don't think it is wrong to point out you've worked hard for the holiday , it might not ve gone as planned but make the best of it , I wouldn't expect huge thank yous but politeness and a bit of effort wouldn't go a miss. When he pays for his holidays he can suit them perfectly to his individual needs but as a family you can't please everyone all of the time. But equally husband should accept 14 year olds might be ungrateful and might not want to do the same things as him and move on without making things worse.

At any age, I think it would be impossible for me to fake gratitude for a "holiday" in a tent.

It sounds like YOU didn’t enjoy the holiday. Did you silk around on your phone texting your friends and only engage if someone bought you food? If not, why not?

You say he wasn't rude, just not engaged.

Tbh, it sounds like even those of you who were "engaged" in the holiday weren't having much fun.

Next time, "disengage" alongside DS1, leave your DH and DS2 to it and book a (warm, dry) room in the local Premier Inn with wifi. Then you can bask in his "engagement" as the hero of the hour.