... to think MIL shouldn't have left DD to cry? Honest views please...

[GogoTheSmall]

I would really appreciate some honest views as to whether I am over-reacting about this. I suppose the key question is whether leaving an 8 month old baby to cry for longer than 15 minutes is OK.

Yesterday MIL took DD on a walk so I could do some housework. This is a big favour to me I know, although to be honest MIL is always desperate to take her for a walk as it is the only time she has DD to herself (DD bf, won't take bottle, only ever wants to be held by me and DH, hence no real babysitting opportunities).

Before they left I asked her to please bring DD back if she was upset. MIL agreed. They were gone for nearly two hours so I thought great, they are getting on.

But when they turned up DD was in floods of tears. MIL announced cheerily, 'Oh, she's been crying like the rain!'

Turns out that DD burst into tears the minute they left the house! But MIL thought she'd 'persevere' and after 20 minutes or so DD cried herself to sleep in the buggy.

She slept for most of the rest of the time, then woke up and began crying again at some unspecified time before MIL decided to finally bring her home.

I am not happy about this! It seems to me that there is an issue of trust here that MIL has broken. Controlled or uncontrolled crying is not part of DH's and my ideas about parenting, and leaving DD to cry herself to sleep is definitely not on.

On the other hand, I do accept that she did me a big favour by taking her out in the first place. And DD was so pleased to see me, she has been an absolute dream since! I keep thinking that it might cause some kind of emotional harm to her development - probably not too damaging, I know, but harm nonetheless.

WWYD in this situation? ATM I have definite qualms about trusting MIL again.

I said on a post yesterday words to the effect that we will never all agree on whether to leave babies to cry or not. Even if two people agree on the length of time to leave a crying baby, you can bet that they won't agree on the "correct" age to do this.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't discuss this, but like custardo says, it is simply a clash of parenting styles, if we weren't disagreeing about crying, it would be weaning, co-sleeping, bf...the list is endless.

FWIW I think you can only go on your own instincts and beliefs. Mine are shaped by my own experiences with my children and they change and develop as I go along and learn new things. Nothing I've read on this thread would make me change my own parenting style, I can only do what I think is right. I suspect that's the same for most of us. So let's discuss by all means but we'll never reach an agreed conclusion!

Sorry to waffle.

I didn't mean to upset/offend/castigate anyone. Sorry. It's just that the CC made a big impact on me when I was pg, then in hosp the girl in the next bed said the 'lungs' thing to her own mother, who just sort of 'hmm'd uncertainly. The girl was about 18 and she was talking about a newborn. It really upset me to see them just looking at the crying baby in his cot. So, I've let personal stuff over-ride common sense.

I think you lot have helped the OP. I wish you'd been around when I was struggling with newborn dtws. (Am now struggling with teens, bless 'em.) Love & peace to all

Hey Stepford what are you apologising for? You haven't offended or upset anyone I'm sure. On the whole I think this is a really balanced, sensitive thread with lots of different views - like my point, we will never all agree! Really good to hear diff views though. Hats off to you with teens, I find it hard enough with 3.2 & 18 mth-old, am dreading the teenage years....

I thought I might've put footinmouth(again). Thanks snooks, you're right.

Ah the teens... Most of us are all, obviously, doing our best to love our dch, guide them, & keep them well-fed, read to them etc. & teach them right from wrong. So far so good, & my dtws and most of their friends have turned out as good or better than hoped/expected. The problems now are different - at what age should they watch TV progs with sexual content? Is it acceptable for a 13 yo to wear a padded bra? (girl, obviously ) Or to wear make-up to school? Am I happy that DDs best friend's mum swears in front of her?

So don't worry about the teens, it's honestly much easier now than when they were small. And with MN to give perspective, we'll all be fine!

Oh god - now, those issues sound far worse, I think I'll stick with the "cry or not to cry" - far simpler!!

" I've never had her cry for that long with me, mainly because a feed usually sorts out any tantrums"

You've hit the nail on the head. MIL did not have access to that ultimate comforter and didn't want to bring her back to you instantly. I was the same in that I always bf mine for comfort and as a result rarely had a baby that cried for ages, but even I couldn't always stop and feed when we were out. My parents sometimes had the situation when one of the DCs got themselves upset because mummy and bf wasn't available but they persevered.

As many posters have said, leaving a baby crying in a pushchair when you are out and about is not the same as leaving a crying baby alone in a cot.

haven't read messages but i think 20mins is a long time, personally, without being picked up and cuddled. and you don't know if that actually meant that she was crying for longer and MiL has said less.
that said, it's nice of her to want to help, so perhaps you should really concentrate on them getting to know each other in your home so this won't happen again. i can understand why the MiL didn't bring her home after five mins, of course, she wouldn't have wanted to let you down. and forget about teh trust being broken thing, it's not hugely relevant, you just need to talk to her and get your daughter to leap from your arms to hers at the sight of her matronly chest. then you've got a winning situation.

oooh you feed to sleep??? Actually that's probably another reason why ds1 rarely cried and ds3 did (ds3 had to wait to be fed & had sleep times when ds1 was coming home from school so couldn't be fed then). Well of course a baby without access to the breast will cry to sleep if that's how they usually drift off. I still think MIL was tyring to be nice and give you a break (presumably she could see she needed to drop off and thought she'd just keep going until she did). It's as custardo says really.

Yes, poor old MIL would love to whip 'em out if she could! She never bf her two boys and now she's always looking at me wistfully and saying that she wishes she had, bless her.

I think she sees the bfing as something keeping her DGD from her, tbh. I get enough comments along the lines of 'o, you'll be thinking about stopping soon, won't you?'

And she would have loved to have given DD a cuddle when she cried, but DD will only accept cuddles from me and DH. She doesn't trust anyone else, and we do try very often to give her to people.

So, poor old MIL, stuck between a rock and a hard place and just trying to get some QT with her only grandchild!

I figured I'd get a PFB-bashing from more experienced mums, but it is interesting to see how there are also some experienced mums who wouldn't accept 20mins crying. V interesting and balanced debate.

Only read OP...

What your MIL did won't harm your dd in the slightest.

However to me thats not the real issue. I think you could accept she was acting with the best of intentions if you had not expressly asked her to bring dd back if she was upset! But you did and she didn't. I think allowing her to cry for 10 mins or so wqould have been reasonable but when it continued longer than this she should have returned with her as you requested.

It doesn't really matter what the issue is - I would be more angry with the fact that she had expressly ignored what I had asked and I would be telling her that unless I could trust that she would follow my instructions I would not want her taking dd out on her own in the future. It doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong to parent like this (not that there is a right or wrong way on my opinion - just ways that work for you). The point is that she deliberately ignored your request to do what she wanted.

Yes I do still have an issue that she ignored what I asked her to do. But I think it was her desperation to spend some time with DD that led her to do that, iyswim.

So now I've had a chance to think about it I can't really get that angry with her. I just feel sorry for her really.

I will definitely say something though, and give her a defined limit of 5mins. I think longer than that is too out of character for my dd.

I had a similar thing when my mum watched my dd, but after discussing it with her it turned out she didn't call me because she didn't want me to think she couldn't cope with my DD, and wanted to be able to babysit more.

I told her i knew she was 100% capable of dealing with my child,but i would prefer it if she called me if DD got that upset again, I don't like to think of her being that upset and crying for me when i'm only 5 mins away.

Just wondering if that's why your mil didn't come back straight away.

Do consider whether its worth persuing if MIL gets upset though. If your dd won't accept cuddles from anyone else then it's perhaps unreasonable to expect her to get over that without crying for longer. I have seen an attachment parented child left with a friend for the first time screaming the place down, settle quite quickly (over a period of a few weeks, built up gradually) and now be left quite happily and be able to stay with said friend and play sunnily. I don't think the screaming could have been avoided unfortunately, heartbreaking though it was.

Presumably your dd has no need to separate from you yet, so that doesn't really matter at this stage, but at some stage you might need help and it is always helpful to have others who can care for your child (said by someone who has had to spend a lot of time trying to find people who can cope with ds1, and then time training them when they're found- initially there was no-one- now there are a few and it really has been worth the effort to get to that stage).

I have only skimmed this thread.

I don't generally expect my dcs to cry the minute they leave the house in a buggy. If I was your MIL, and I agreed with my DIL to bring dd back if she was upset, then I might still perservere for 5 mins. But then either head home or call to check.

Not all babies cry themselves to sleep for so long. If my MIL called and asked, I would either say, come home (because there is no reason for the crying) or say continue (because that is the way my baby falls asleep or because I know baby is so tired, the only way they can fall asleep is in the buggy and they will cry whether with me at home or outside with MIL in the buggy).

I have more than one child, so not speaking as a pfb parent. And my children scream for England (so much so that strangers ask me to do something! Sorry, that's just the way they scream) and can take 20 minutes or longer to cry to sleep.

I think that is worth considering yurtgirl - although mine were at a cms during the day once I went back to work, they could not be left at night at all. It meant that I could never go out until I'd bitten that particular bullet .

I was dubious about letting MIL look after my kids but when I was heavily preg with DS2, Dh talked me into it.
She was always undermining me which was why I didn't want to do it.
We arrived, she was out despite it being pre-arranged. We waited for her for 40 mins.
I briefed her on what to feed him and I had brought all the food and everything.
She immediately spoke over me to DH and asked him if she could cook something for DS. I asked how she expected DH to know what DS ate? His family are under a very wrong illusion that he is really hands on. He is okay, but certainly not hands on!

Anyway, DH drags me away and off we go. After 2 hours I can take no more and we go back. I did not enjoy a minute of our outing.

I walk up to the bungalow and the bedroom window is open a crack....
(DS is screaming)

'Don't worry!' I can hear MIL snarling, 'You can have your precious Mummy back soon!'

FIL opens door, I push my way in as quick as I can and grab DS from the pram MIL is shunting back and forth violently, her other hand on her hip, not even looking at DS.

I have NEVER left either of my children with her since and I never will.

As far as I am concerned, she totally let me down and always tried to undermine me at every oppertunity. She does not anymore as she has moved to Spain, but gave up trying to show me up long ago as I got really firm with her and won't let her. She preyed on my lack of confidence when Ds was tiny.

DH wants to go over there to see them in the Summer and he suggested they could look after the DS' while him and I go for a meal....
I don't think so!

I think you may be over reacting slightly. Letting a baby cry for 15-20 mins whilst out is not a disaster and will not cause emotional trauma.
I think the problem with your lo is under exposure to other adults dealing with her needs. She probably woke up and expected you there. IMHO it would help if your MIL and other adults could take her out alone more often so she feels more comfortable with them.
As others have already said, she probably felt you needed the time to your self and didn't want to let you down, which is probably why she didn't turn around and come straight home.

YABU. First baby?

Babies cry, no harm will have been done.

I don't think you should even consider not trusting MIL again - she didn't do it to undermine you, she probably just wanted some time with your DD. She has been a mother too, no doubt her baby / babies did cry as well.

Cut her a bit of slack, and yourself too. Babies are tough creatures, and honestly, no harm will be done, and over the years, especially if you have more than one child, you will need help, and it really isn't worth upsetting your MIL over what is really a minor incident in the scheme of things.

ALl the best,

i really hate all this first baby/pfb stuff, it's very undermining. i still think 20 mins is a fuck of a long time to cry... wouldn't think of doing that to dd.

your poor MiL, though, if she can't comfort dd at all, personally i think that's the area to work on, letting them get to know each other much more.

You're right, it IS undermining, Aitch. But if you've got more than one, sometimes they DO cry for that long because you're sorting the other one out (cleaning up and comforting vomitty or nosebleedy child, other one just a bit pissed off with tiredness ). And it's not ideal, but it doesn't hurt them.

And sometimes mothers of just one child are precious and sneering about problems mums of more than one have. It's yet another example of the sisterhood...!

Er, not you, btw. I'm thinking of MENTAL posters who use "hun" a lot and circular arguments without pausing for breath.

20mins is ages. i would be very upset.

I have two children btw

I would be more perturbed by the fact that your MIL seemed quite ok with your dd crying but from reading the posts on her apparebtly a lot of people would be ok with this,

i wouldn't I think it is very .

I left the dds with my inlaws for 15mins a few days ago (they have been left with them for hours before) I could hear dd2 roaring before I opened the car door. I rushed in to find my in-laws cowering in corners after trying all sorts to comfort dd2 (15months) and failing. The difference is my in-laws respect that kids go though stages and they are happy that dd2 will be fine with them again at some point.

But I don't think they would fancy babysitting for a wee while .

oh yes, i completely see that, but i hardly think that saying 'sometimes i've been forced to leave my child to cry longer than i might like if i only had one to look after and i've not observed any long-term damage' is what is being said here.
if someone (grandma/nursery/cm) left my kid to cry for 20mins and couldn't comfort them i'd be unhappy about that, it's not the same as their mother clearly dealing with their big brother and being present but unable to deal with them in that instant. wrt the OP it's the comforting that needs to be fixed imo.

oh, and i'm the eldest of four, btw. i do NOT remember my wee bro or sis going uncomforted for 20 mins, despite how busy my mum must have been. i do remember being sent upstairs to do the comforting myself, however. which brings me back to my main point... lol.