To think women used to be less "feminine"

[Kalvinette]

A Skunk Anansie video popped up on my FB feed (blast from the past!) and it got me thinking how it's strange that we've never been as feminist as a culture, but actually women in the public eye used to look stereotypically less feminine. I'm thinking of Skin, Sinead O'Connor, etc. Lots of women used to wear their hair really short, there was that whole masculine/unisex dressing style.
With men as well, you had the whole longer hair thing, and then the glam rock thing, men in make up with glitter, feathers, etc.

AIBU to think that although we've never been as vocally supportive of "gender fluidity", in actual fact women and men today seem to stick quite rigidly to masculine and feminine codes?

I think you've named pretty much the only two famous women from the 90s that had shaven heads. There might be a couple more that I've forgotten - but that's it, out of thousands. It wasn't "popular" as such.

Skin changed her image and went very feminine after that. She liked her androgynous phase and she liked her more feminine phase too. She was changing and growing.

I think the 90s had a bit of a gender bending thing going on. Fashions change.

I don't agree I think women have always played into stereotypes of looking feminine.

I don't think it's become worse over time at all instead I just think the trends/styles and fashions have changed.

I actually would probably say the opposite as many youngsters wear flats these days even on nights out.

Fair points and I guess @DrSbaitso that's quite reminiscent of Billie Eilish

I'm not articulate about it, but I know what you're saying. When I was a little girl my standard outfit was a blue tracksuit which would be seen as "boys" clothes noe, but was quite normal for a girl then.

And now, we have a world where fake eyelashes, nails, fillers etc are the norm.

It all feels like backwards steps to me.

How the fuck is that transphobia? Why does EVERYTHING have to be about trans?

And OP appears to be too young to remember the 60s and 70s... I'm not. Men in kaftans and makeup, women in buzz cuts and dungarees... everywhere.

@toconclude
...What?

@Haudyourwheesht

How the fuck is that transphobia? Why does EVERYTHING have to be about trans?

Why indeed? Gender fluidity isn't new, and has nothing to do with gender stereotypes.

@toconclude
I am too young love, you're right. I was born in the 80s.

@toconclude
Surely gender fluidity has everything to do with gender stereotypes, since gender is about the interface between you and society.

No I'd say not tbh. If you look at clubbing wear from the 2000s vs now, what's being worn now is far more comfortable and practical - bandage dresses and stilettos vs clunky boots, cycling shorts, crop tops etc. Everything comes in waves.

When I was a little girl my standard outfit was a blue tracksuit which would be seen as "boys" clothes noe, but was quite normal for a girl then.

"Athleisure" is very popular for girls now. Most of the teen girls round here sport leggings and hoodies/sports tops. My 11 year old won't wear anything else.

I think the 90s had a grunge/rock trend but there were also a lot of long flowery skirts and babydoll dresses.

What about Boy George and Marilyn in the 80s? People have always played with gender and stereotypes. I lived in dm boots and dungarees in the 80s but still considered myself to be feminine.
I think then as opposed to now we could be more individual in styles. Now most young women look very similar, fake nails, fake eyelashes, plumped up lips etc

I know what you mean. There must be so much pressure on female artists to confirm (in their looks) and lose their individuality.

Conform even

@bizboz

When I was a little girl my standard outfit was a blue tracksuit which would be seen as "boys" clothes noe, but was quite normal for a girl then.

"Athleisure" is very popular for girls now. Most of the teen girls round here sport leggings and hoodies/sports tops. My 11 year old won't wear anything else.

I think the 90s had a grunge/rock trend but there were also a lot of long flowery skirts and babydoll dresses.

Yes, skin tight leggings, not "boys" track suits

I was born in the 80s too and know what you mean. One good thing I have observed is slightly less body shaming. Looking back I was by no means wildly overweight, chubby at points less so at others, but never skinny. I see far more people wearing what they want despite not having a perfect figure. I think that's a slight silver lining.

You’ve literally named two people who didn’t look stereotypically feminine - hardly conclusive. For every one of those I’m sure there was a real “girly girl” also in the public eye!

Depends on who you’re looking at, doesn’t it? Kristen Stewart, Christine and the Queens, Ruby Rose, Grimes, Billie Eilish, Billy Porter, Rain Dove, Cara Delevigne, Jonathan Van Ness and Timothee Chalomet, for example, are all current celebrities not conforming to gender stereotypes.

I get what you mean to an extent - Instagram is flooded with women all showing a very similar and very feminine look (plump lips, big soft eyes, very long bouncy hair, hourglass figures). But I don’t think there are fewer subverters than there used to be - there are still plenty out there!

I see far more people wearing what they want despite not having a perfect figure. I think that's a slight silver lining.

I agree with this.

Yes. When I was young, it was normal for girls to have short hair and trousers were becoming the norm. Now short hair seems to be very rare indeed and though girls are no longer forced into dresses, they tend to be offered increasingly skimpy and sexualised clothing in pastel colours, with sparklet, unicorns and exhortations towards feminine attitudes from a very early age. Though there were some toys with an assumed gender bias, Lego was not aimed at either sex. Now it’s determinedly gendered.

That said, it’s always been less acceptable for boys to wear things that are considered as being for girls. Sadly the girls, who had begun to take strides away from the sterotyping have been shoved right back into it.

I hope it’ll swing back. Sexism and misogyny seem to be on the rise too. They never really went away, but there’s definitely a faction of woman-haters who are thriving because of the internet.

Also totally agree that diversity in body shapes is a thing and one to be celebrated.

But yeah I agree with @MakeCrisps that the sportswear style now is tight leggings and crop tops... Having said that: ONJ and "let's get physical"!

Having said that: ONJ and "let's get physical"!

No one wore that in the street though