To think women used to be less "feminine"

[Kalvinette]

A Skunk Anansie video popped up on my FB feed (blast from the past!) and it got me thinking how it's strange that we've never been as feminist as a culture, but actually women in the public eye used to look stereotypically less feminine. I'm thinking of Skin, Sinead O'Connor, etc. Lots of women used to wear their hair really short, there was that whole masculine/unisex dressing style.
With men as well, you had the whole longer hair thing, and then the glam rock thing, men in make up with glitter, feathers, etc.

AIBU to think that although we've never been as vocally supportive of "gender fluidity", in actual fact women and men today seem to stick quite rigidly to masculine and feminine codes?

I agree, OP. At the moment, nearly all the teenage girls in my area have long, straightened hair, lots of make-up, weird eyebrows and leggings that show every little ass-wobble.

But like all fashions, it'll come and go. In the mid-90s there was a sudden trend for girls to wear lumberjack shirts, baseball caps and men's cologne, like Lynx. I was furious because my edgy style was suddenly very fashionable. 😖😆

I think mums dads society felt similarly to plenty of past female fashions!

Additionally I give you-

Boys and young men who wore their trousers like they were falling down with sometimes their entire underpanted bottom out

Boys and young men who wore their trousers like they were falling down with sometimes their entire underpanted bottom out

Yes, it was fascinating how the trousers never seemed to actually fall to their ankles.

And now ones that don't go into 2 legs until nearly their knees.

Both styles look v uncomfortable

Omg remember hammer pants!

In the 80s & 90s there was more room for androgenously dropping gender expectations and they were more blurred without having any deeper meaning attached to it. It was simpler.

I don't think it's coincidental that the politics of gender identity has arisen at the same time as things like gender reveal parties. Gender can and often is emphisised from before birth. While there was more explicit sexism in things like girls having to play netball and never playing football, they were also more free to be active in pretty much unisex clothes.

I did see a teen boy on the high street have them fall down once

I heard the trend was from USA about having your belt taken when you were arrested.

The chance of arrest for the average teen boy here esp by the feds is pretty slim.

But yeah. Having their trousers under their bum cheeks makes them look v dangerous

Bogroll I think the pushback against that freedom predates all that stuff.

It does worry me how so many people seem to take whatever the current thing is as set in stone and always.

I watch a lot of Bowie Adam ant etc with the kids. Marilyn. Boy George. Annie Lennox. Kate Bush even. Feminine but she comes across totally nuts- the look in her eyes. Not feminine that!

The thing I miss is when you look at 80s esp there was so much silliness. Joy. Men and women smiling. Mucking around together. Laughing. Fun.

That has really really changed.

There are always some sexualised high maintenance looks and some not.

Eighties… stiletto heels, page 3, perms, corset tops, massive hair supermodels, see through lace clothing, Lycra.

Nineties… thongs visible out of the top of trousers, Lads mags, heroin chic, wonder bra, boob jobs, straightened hair, tiny eyebrows so you can’t visibly frown, going clubbing in a slip.

2000s… ‘lollipop’ head anorexic look, tight fitting skinny trousers and jeans, pink everything, Botox, crop tops and low cut trousers your kidneys were always cold, white people dye themselves orange, labioplasty.

Now… gigantic gym created arses, lip filler, fast fashion, love Island, yoga pants, white people now more oak than orange.

The lads went from baggy ass jeans to ones so tight you wonder if it would affect their future fertility and with the daft floppy but spikey one sided hair that covers their face. Like walking manga cartoons.

The teen girls here are all long straight hair or messy bun with leggings and crop tops.

The early 00's by mine were bleach blonde highlighted, straightened to death hair (thanks GHD's), eyebrows, fake tan, crazy heels and tight dresses. But only on nights out. We looked normalish in the day time!

Certainly male goths were warned that the skin tight jeans and high cider consumption could impact on their fertility.

I'm not joking!

I just wonder where all the "Tom boys" went.

Growing up in the 90's we had a few in our school years. I was even one for a while before discovering the make up box age 15.

These days they seem non existent 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you watch older documentaries from the 70s and 80s, women and girls were way more feminine in that they spoke quietly/softly and moved less extravagantly. Very poised and held.

Older documentaries from the 70s and 80s?!

Well that's going to make a lot of posters feel old!

'women and girls were way more feminine in that they spoke quietly/softly and moved less extravagantly. Very poised and held.'

I've never heard punks/ goths etc described like that before!

What does moving less extravagantly involve?

I genuinely have no idea!

Softly spoken

Less extravagant movements.

Wielding a sword isn't extravagant is it?

@NiceGerbil

Older documentaries from the 70s and 80s?!

Well that's going to make a lot of posters feel old!

'women and girls were way more feminine in that they spoke quietly/softly and moved less extravagantly. Very poised and held.'

I've never heard punks/ goths etc described like that before!

What does moving less extravagantly involve?

I genuinely have no idea!

We're not talking about subcultures though...but about ordinary, everyday women. It's just something I've noticed.

Ok "Moving extravagantly" was a bit daft...I just meant that they made less 'big' movements. They did...I was there anyway. I don't think it's that long ago but there's definitely a change.

I was around in the 70s and 80s and I don't recognise that tbh.

Dancing to the birdy song or superman definitely involved big movements,!

I think that although sexism / sex discrimination was worse in the 70s / 80s, the expectation of gender conformity was also much less.
Looking back at class photos then compared with those of my DDs now, there was much more variety of hair length/style.
Clothes were more general too, not the sea of pink & sequins v blue trucks & dinosaurs.
People like David Bowie, Boy George were properly understood to be men, whatever their clothes or how much makeup they wore.
I think the modern concepts of gender and gender non-conformity are much more constraining for both men and women than when everyone knew there were 2 sexes and didn't try to impose an extra layer on top.

Fashion. It will come around again.

@TheSkatesOfCoachBombay

I just wonder where all the "Tom boys" went.

Growing up in the 90's we had a few in our school years. I was even one for a while before discovering the make up box age 15.

These days they seem non existent 🤷🏻‍♀️

They were "tomboys" because the range of things it was acceptable for girls to like/do were much smaller than today. I got called a tomboy because I like football and trains (among lots of other things). But I wouldn't be seen dead in a pair of trousers until I was age 11 or so, absolutely dreaded someone mistaking me for a boy. My DDs play football and no-one one has ever called them a tomboy. I'm really glad that term has largely fallen out of use.

Short hairstyles were fashionable in the 80s, as was big hair and curls/crimping.

Doubtless it will come round again.

I've had the same hairstyle for over 30 years so I don't give a hoot!

I think social media homogenises everything. It’s become the dominant channel for the ‘fashion’ that everyone ‘follows’.

And gender non-conformity wasn’t universally accepted back in the day. There’s a story about Aretha Franklin meeting Annie Lennox to record Sisters Are Doin’ It For Themselves and expressed confusion as to why the record company had sent a man. The whole thing was cleared up but Franklin remained uncomfortable and borderline homophobic throughout. And after Boy George was on TOTP The Sun ran a phone-in asking readers whether ‘it’ was a man or a woman.

@TheSkatesOfCoachBombay

I just wonder where all the "Tom boys" went.

Growing up in the 90's we had a few in our school years. I was even one for a while before discovering the make up box age 15.

These days they seem non existent 🤷🏻‍♀️

They are now taught that not performing femininity and not conforming to sex role 'gender' stereotypes means they must be boys instead of being celebrated.

They were "tomboys" because the range of things it was acceptable for girls to like/do were much smaller than today. I got called a tomboy because I like football and trains

Unfortunately that box is getting smaller and smaller once again.

It is impossible to buy my autistic 12 year old daughter clothes that she is comfortable in. She opts for leggings & boys t-shirts. I don't think she would have had the same issues if she'd have grown up in the 80s.