Parents and property

[Fedduup32]

Please be kind I’m not in a good place at the moment mentally.

In my early 20’s my parents put a rental property in my name. Not all as good as it sounds. I’m in my 40’s now and because of this property was unable to get first time buyers mortgage when I was looking for my own place so didn’t get a good deal that I could have.

Over the years whenever I bring up any conversation it ends in my mum screaming at me and threatening to put the property in one of my siblings name instead. I’m really upset as I came to visit my mum with kids and mentioned our flat is too small and I would love to get a bigger place and asked her if i sold the property how much would I get so could use as a deposit so I can get a nicer place. She got unreasonable again which resulted in me screaming at her too, not a nice thing to be honest. In the end I managed to get info from her that the rental gets £70 profit a month so in 20 years of this I asked her if I can have my money and she starts screaming at me.

After a lot of shouting today I finally learnt truth from her that she only made me buy the property as her accountant told her it will make more sense money wise to put in one of the kids name as they would have to pay tax etc. I feel really used by her but also guilty that she’s my mum but I feel sad that she never thinks about me or any repercussions it has had in my future finances and opportunities.

She doesn’t even clearly talk to me about anything to do with the property. I don’t even know if it was hers first then she put in my name for tax or first time buyers rate. I just get made to feel unreasonable if I ask any questions. My siblings were there today as well and they made me feel I am causing trouble but also admitted they glad she didn’t put in their name as they would have missed out on first time buyers with their property. I just wa t answers from her but she threatens all sorts.

I’m lying here feeling bad I brought up the topic but why can’t she just have a conversation with me about it. I don’t know what she’s hiding as she gets defensive.

Owning a second property has all sorts of implications for you financially. You need to take control. Get all the paperwork from the accountant and see a solicitor.
I also find it odd that the property is only turning a profit of £70 pcm. Obviously I don't know your figures or where the house is but rents have gone up in 20 years as have house prices.

You could also just open a new bank account elsewhere and instruct the tenants to redirect the rent, make sure you set up insurances and any tax etc to the new account too.

Also did I read correctly that somewhere up thread you said you are paying the tax due on it? I hope your DP are at least covering that.

Also agree with pp, you need counselling to help you process this.

Not helpful I know, but the only reason your dm resorts to screaming is she probably knows she’s in the wrong and is stressed out by the whole situation too.

Surely if tenants have lived in this property for 20 years the mortgage must nearly be paid off ?

So I would suggest you find out

Whose name the deeds of the property are in

Whose name the mortgage is in

How many years left on mortgage

If it is all in your name, get all paperwork & logins transferred to you

The income of £70 a month, should that come to you

Who is liable to pay tax on the income each year to HMRC. If it us you & you live in UK you can log onto the Government gateway & View all your tax history.

Contact the letting agency & confirm if you are the LL & if so all paperwork & rental income should come to you

Do all this before counselling

I suspect that it may also have been remortgaged several times if the rental return has stayed static. If it is highly leveraged the OP could end up with a CGT bill that is greater than the equity

Bloody hell what a mess!

I'm gong to go against the grain and say actually I don't think it's your house. Obviously legally it is, but you didn't contribute financially, haven't lived there or been involved. Therefore selling it and taking the money would be wrong. You don't know how much your parents invested in it.

However, yes you are being abused here, its all in your name including the risks!! I think you should have cleared all of this up years ago, when you need to be a FTB.

You need to extract yourself from the house, legally and emotionally. They never bought it for you, they cheated TAX for their own benefit. Why would they buy you a house and not your siblings?
They don't consider it to be your house, it belongs to them. I'd give it back.

@mm8989

Bloody hell what a mess!

I'm gong to go against the grain and say actually I don't think it's your house. Obviously legally it is, but you didn't contribute financially, haven't lived there or been involved. Therefore selling it and taking the money would be wrong. You don't know how much your parents invested in it.

However, yes you are being abused here, its all in your name including the risks!! I think you should have cleared all of this up years ago, when you need to be a FTB.

You need to extract yourself from the house, legally and emotionally. They never bought it for you, they cheated TAX for their own benefit. Why would they buy you a house and not your siblings?
They don't consider it to be your house, it belongs to them. I'd give it back.

Yes, this ^^^

All the people talking about the parents cheating tax for their own benefit, what tax are you thinking of specifically?

You need legal advice. The property is yours and it sounds like the accounts/tax/HMRC have been dealt with every year, so I wouldn't worry about that. But you need to find out what you can do next.

As the property is in your name, you can refuse to sign any more paperwork for tenants. You also need to find out if the property is paid off or on an interest-only mortgage and where you stand financially. Do you know the mortgage provider? I would give them a call.

Paper deeds are rare these days and it should be easy to request an electronic copy. (hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/19/title-deeds/)

As, it's such a dysfunctional situation, I think you may need a counsellor as well as a solicitor to support you in this situation. Your parents sound financially abusive. In your place I wouldn't care anymore what they thought, they haven't treated you very well have they!

Legal advice. absolutely.

all local solicitors and ask to speak to someone in their property team and possibly someone who deals with tax issues.

i'm curious how your parents managed to open an account in your name on your behalf when you were 20. usually this would be done under a lack of capacity but i assume that's not the case?

[quote Fedduup32]@HollowTalk not this first time I’m posting. Do you have link so I could read please?[/quote]
@Fedduup32 ugh, so sorry you are in this shit situation.

I didn't follow it closely, but remember something of this thread and it might help you navigate the tricky waters ahead:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4201587-Parents-buying-a-house-for-me-Should-I-be-more-grateful-Why-am-I-so-concerned

Wishing you better parents in your next life! 😊

Fedduup32
You have two problems - your controlling parents and your legal & financial situation re the property.
You need counseling for the parent problem and legal advice for the property problem.

(Your DH was sensible not to 'get involved' as you asked him to do. Your parents have got you into a complete mess with this.)

I agree with PP - people scream when they know they are in the wrong.

Stop signing paperwork you don't understand. If your DH is supportive, make sure he is there when it's likely you'll be pressurised. Gain as much knowledge as possible (you'll be amazed what you can find out). Seek professional advice.

Sounds like they picked you as the youngest and least able to stand up for yourself. If I remember correctly, up till 2012 or so, there was a loophole around putting property in DC names, although I think it may have involved setting up a trust. A solicitor will know.

@Fedduup32

The mortgage is in my name. Their accountant does a tax return every year with my details. I often have to pay a small value to HRMC so they must be profiting. No the £70 she keeps and has kept. Everytime I’ve ever asked her any details she screams at me.

In past when I’ve asked DH to get involved his response is they’ve taken mortgage out in my name to profit from my first time buyers rate and Even though legally it’s mine in reality they think it’s their property. My parents are very controlling so it hasn’t been easy for me to stand up to them. They have the deeds I don’t, there’s paperwork every so often I sign when new tenants come but when I question them I get screamed at and questioned why I don’t trust them.

I grew up thinking this was normal but I’m so angry they’ve taken advantage of me. I’ve asked siblings to get involved as they must know more details than I do but they don’t want the hassle.

I need to get advice on all this.

Sorry but you are to blame for agreeing to all of this. Your parents are only controlling because you allow it. Get the paperwork together and sell the property.

Legally, you agreed to become the owner of the house, legally you can do what you want with it.
Morally, you were manipulated by your parents, morally, you don't own the house.

You REALLY need to get this sorted out. You say that you are named as the landlord, do you know the implication of this? That if your parents failed to carry out electric and gas safety checks and the house burned down and killed them, YOU would be responsible and likely sent to jail?

You need to decide whether to take the legal or moral stand. If legal, get a solicitor to write to your parents and inform them of your intention to give notice to the tenants, sell the house, and use the proceeds to your benefits.

Or take the moral approach, tell you parents that you want nothing with the house any longer, and they either take on the mortgage and you do a transfer of deeds, or you sell the house and share the proceeds with your siblings.

Ia m sorry you are in this pickle.

I'm sorry your parents aren't doing their best by you.

You're in a right pickle with this one. But you need to sort it out because tax problems can be complicated.

Start by collecting together any paperwork you might have been given. Make sure you've got the name of the accountant and any solicitor that your parents have been pushing on you.

Do you know which bank/building society the mortgage is with? and do you have any paperwork with the account number?

You need your own legal and financial advice - from people who are not your mother's solicitor or accountant. You can go direct to a local solicitor and ask if they will listen to you for free and then suggest what they could do to help you, or you could go to Citizens Advice and ask them to signpost you to an organisation that can help.

There's also a couple of nuclear options, but they could have serious consequences for your relationship with your family. I won't suggest those unless you want to know them.

You mention siblings, is your relationship with them good? are any of them aware of the situation? and is it possible that they could have been put in a similar position by your mother?

Well you have 2 choices
Do nothing and continue to be open to risk of prosecution due to deposits not being returned, gas certificates not being done, tax evasion etc etc etc. Not saying will be the case but you are legally responsible for all this and you have no idea what’s going on
Second choice is stand up to your family. Very hard I know but you have a husband, can’t he support you? Looks like you actually own this house so you can do what you want with it. Stop signing things when you dont know what they are
Your family will kick off, you will be accused of all sorts and the emotional blackmail will be piled on but if you are brave enough you can come out of this with what is basically a free house and you may be rid of your horrible family too

@Fedduup32

Thank you everyone. I agree I think I might need councelling before I decide to do anything. I just feel really upset and alone. She kept saying to me yesterday she made a mistake having me as I always cause trouble. She should have stopped at her 2nd child and not had me.

All my life I’ve felt I’m the “naughty” and bad one in family.

Doing what you can to take control of your property will probably end your relationship with them. This would be a good thing I expect, but you do need help in dealing with it.

Whilst you're organising counselling go to Land Registry and get the documentation people have recommended to find out if you're the sole owner of the property. Do small things like this just to get yourself in a better position.

If you have parents who tell you you are a mistake and are basically horrible to you, then never having contact with them going forward is a bonus!

Regardless of who owns this property I think OP the best favour you could do yourself is to change your mind-set. Do whatever you can to get out of this situation and then walk away, the whole thing is toxic and controlling and you will never 'win'!

Your family now simply consists of you, your dh and your children and hopefully some nice in-laws, you say you have 2 dcs? then I would say that as the years go by your family will grow and flourish without including the toxic, unpleasant relatives you are really better off without! Being related by dna is not the be all and end all, surround yourself with people who truly love you and you wont go far wrong!

The tax on rentals changed a few year ago. You have to pay tax on income not profit. Have you been doing a self assessment and declaring this income?

Capital gains. You will owe capital gains on sale. This is based on sale and purchase price.

Mortgage fraud. It sounds as if you have been complicit in mortgage fraud.

Tax fraud. You have also supported illegal tax evasion. Not avoidance (legal) but evasion.

Get a very good solicitor.

Check land registry- it will tell you how owns it and who the mortgage is with (who has a charge over it )

I don't understand all these people saying 'morally the house is not yours'. In this situation, as your parents and siblings seem to be entirely morally bankrupt themselves, morals can be put aside.

You own the property. You can take back control of it, the finances, and do what you want with it. Your parents deliberately screwed you over and continue to do so with no regard for helping you to buy your own home. It is your property, so sell it. If you feel generous, return the deposit I assume they paid (although as it seems like they bought it as a BTL maybe there was no deposit - 100% mortgages used to be a thing for BTL).

Accept that your parents are bullying, vindictive people who do not value you as you deserve to be valued and your siblings are cowardly at best and amoral at worst. You deserve to be treated better OP, and I hope you find a way to stand up for yourself here.

I would do a land registry search to find out exactly who the house is registered to. Who is paying the mortgage and if it’s in your name you really need the paperwork.

I’m sorry that you seem to have been duped by your parents, but I do wonder if the property is solely yours. There must have been repairs and costs involved in the rental property, and if this is in your name, you would be liable if something major needs to be done. I agree with people saying you need legal advice. It may cause you to fall out with your parents, but they don’t sound very nice and you may be better off severing all ties with them. But I really think this needs sorting out and never sign anything unless you are completely sure you know what you are signing.

Are you absolutely sure it's legally entirely yours? It could possibly be yours but under a usufruct or life interest type arrangement (I only know this law from another country so not sure how it works in UK, you'd need legal advice).

In this case what parents often do is 'give' the property to their child, to avoid IHT implications later. Although the property legally belongs to the child, the parents have a life interest. Interest/income from the property goes to the parents whilst they're alive, not the child, and there may be provisions that prevent the child from selling whilst the parents are still alive. When the parents die, the child inherits the property but without paying IHT (assuming parents die sufficiently long after handing property over), and the child then gets the interest/income too.

Not sure how common this is in the UK, and in balance and considering their crazy behaviour your parents are probably financially abusive instead, but it is something to ask your lawyer about.