Parents and property

[Fedduup32]

Please be kind I’m not in a good place at the moment mentally.

In my early 20’s my parents put a rental property in my name. Not all as good as it sounds. I’m in my 40’s now and because of this property was unable to get first time buyers mortgage when I was looking for my own place so didn’t get a good deal that I could have.

Over the years whenever I bring up any conversation it ends in my mum screaming at me and threatening to put the property in one of my siblings name instead. I’m really upset as I came to visit my mum with kids and mentioned our flat is too small and I would love to get a bigger place and asked her if i sold the property how much would I get so could use as a deposit so I can get a nicer place. She got unreasonable again which resulted in me screaming at her too, not a nice thing to be honest. In the end I managed to get info from her that the rental gets £70 profit a month so in 20 years of this I asked her if I can have my money and she starts screaming at me.

After a lot of shouting today I finally learnt truth from her that she only made me buy the property as her accountant told her it will make more sense money wise to put in one of the kids name as they would have to pay tax etc. I feel really used by her but also guilty that she’s my mum but I feel sad that she never thinks about me or any repercussions it has had in my future finances and opportunities.

She doesn’t even clearly talk to me about anything to do with the property. I don’t even know if it was hers first then she put in my name for tax or first time buyers rate. I just get made to feel unreasonable if I ask any questions. My siblings were there today as well and they made me feel I am causing trouble but also admitted they glad she didn’t put in their name as they would have missed out on first time buyers with their property. I just wa t answers from her but she threatens all sorts.

I’m lying here feeling bad I brought up the topic but why can’t she just have a conversation with me about it. I don’t know what she’s hiding as she gets defensive.

And OP, you eed to see a solicitor first, before a counselling - you don't have time to emotionally unpick what your parents are like, you need to protect yourself legally first, as a matter of urgency.

If the business bank account is held in your name, then you can ask the bank for statements, access to the account etc. If you want, you can also revoke your parents' authority to manage the account

If the accountant is submitting tax returns on your behalf, then you are the client, and therefore entitled to copies of records

It sounds as though you were young and naive and it's understandable that you previously went along with what your parents / professionals advised, but I'm surprised this has been going on for 20 years

In your shoes, I would probably sell the flat

If the income goes into a bank account in your name get that sorted out first. Contact the the bank, tell them to change the address to yours and remove your parents from being able to use the account. Do you have any copies of paperwork you have signed like the last tenancy agreement? I would also contact the accountant and ask for a copy of the most recent tax return they have completed on your behalf then get a copy of the land certificate from the land registry. Very few properties are still unregistered and have old fashioned deeds, usually only property which has not changed owners for 40+ years. As the property was bought 20 years ago it is likely to be registered land so as long as the property is in your sole name you do not need any documents from your parents to sell the property.

Please get help - counselling and legal. You are in a very toxic family system that has assigned you the role of scapegoat. If you don't escape from it, they will continue abusing you and making you miserable for life - your siblings as well as your parents.

I would highly recommend that you break off all contact with your parents and siblings until you understand what is happening to you, psychologically and legally. As others have said, make sure that you control all aspects of this property, and refuse to give in to their demands to hand it over in any way.

Morally, I believe you're entitled to at least some share of this property as compensation for losing out on the property ladder and the opportunity that brings. You need to conduct a clear-headed assessment of what you feel is fair - not what they think is fair - then act accordingly.

The bad news is they will never forgive you for 'betraying' them. The good news is you owe nothing to people who would betray you to the extent they already have, and their opinion should carry no weight in your head.

@Fedduup32 This is awful and in my mind financial abuse. Firstly you have to decide if you are willing to do what is necessary to end the abuse which will likely mean no relationship with your family.

Do you work/have you worked since the property was put in your name? There is a tax liability which you may not even realise you have been paying over the years. If you earn zero you wouldn't notice but if you work your 0 rate personal allowance will most likely be being used in full or part by rental income you are not receiving so you are paying tax sooner or at a higher rate than you should. Owning the property will affect you right to benefits should you ever need them and it's also a marital asset.

There are so many reasons why this is not okay and detrimental to you financial when you are not actually benefiting. It sounds like the only time you would actually see any real benefit is when your parents die and even then it sounds like you would either be cut out of any other inheritance on the basis the property is your share or be pressured by siblings to sell and split profit on the basis of fairness. You currently have all the negative sides of property ownership including massive liabilities for being a landlord without any of the benefits.

Please treat this as an abusive situation and take steps to rectify. You can't speak to your abusers about it nor direct family who don't see it as abuse. Don't feel stupid for being in this situation or how you got here. The people who should have protected you have done this to you.

As others have said download the deeds from Land Registry and take it from there. You are in control of this, everything is in your name so you can go to the bank and mortgage company with ID to regain control if you want to. Only you can decide if you've had enough and what lengths you are willing to go to now to change things. Good luck and keep posting for help, you can get through this and there will be help available here at every turn if you want it.

Whilst this is absolutely a tax evasion, I disagree that it's OP's property morally. Presumably she didn't put down the deposit, and she isn't paying the mortgage out of her own pocket. That's the reason why she isn't being paid the rental income, because it is not her who has invested the money. The income morally belongs to whoever actually paid for the investment. The property being in OPs name is merely a technicality morally.

I think it is reasonable for OP to say she no longer wishes to have her name associated with the property, and to ask her parents to transfer into their names. This will of course mean that up to 40% inheritance tax will be payable if they still own the property (or proceeds from it) on their death. And it will be go into the pot to be split between all the siblings rather than going directly to OP. But if that's what OP wants, then she should address that with her parents.

In her parent's defence, I would say that this arrangement has been made to benefit OP in the future via reduced IT, and I'd be pretty cross if one of my children was demanding money from an investment of mine that they had paid literally nothing into whatsoever. This is equivalent to when elderly parents sign their property over to their children to protect their children's inheritance - and then the children instantly consider the property their own and try to evict their own parents. Legally the property may be theirs, but morally it belongs to the parents, and the (illegal and ill advised) transaction was done purely to benefit the children in the future.

Agree with Faranth, solicitor then counselling, understanding the financial and legal situation and how much control YOU potentially have over them will be a big step in your mental health.

My guess is that they know that you have the power to sell the property, remove them from the business account etc and then their nice little nest egg won’t be theirs anymore (and rightly so)

Lots of good advice above. The other thing they have stuffed you with is if you and your husband sell your flat and buy another, you’ll have to pay the extra stamp duty amount for a ‘second’ property which is an extra 3% per band.

You really need some legal advice.

Get proper legal advice immediately.

@Faranth

So they are paying the mortgage?

From what OP has said, on paper the mortgage is in OPs name, the tenants are renting from OP, the rent being paid covers the mortgage and everything else, leaving £70pcm.

So on paper OP is paying the mortgage - she's just not seeing any of the £70 profit. For 20 years!!

But she says she is paying some tax on a tax return each year which either means she is paying tax on income she isn’t receiving or she is receiving some income. How old are you OP?

@pigeonpies

See a solicitor, turn up with anything you know about the house situation, don't worry if it's very little.

Sell the property, keep the full amount of the sell, don't give any to your parents

If it forces then to go no contact then that's a benefit in my opinion

Time to stand up for yourself and live your life OP. They won't like it. You won't like it. You've been conditioned to do as they say and never question, that's how coercion works. You're in your 40's now, not a teenager who needs parental guidance.

Stand up and take what's yours x

Exactly this, this situation is so messed up. I couldn't have a relationship with them after knowing all this.

They've completely manipulated OP and taken advantage. Get out of it ASAP.

@Fedduup32

I feel scared seeing shy solicitor as I have no idea about any figures. All paperwork goes to their address.

My siblings said to me yesterday I’m a troublemaker and my dad will have a stroke because of me

Oh your siblings are arseholes as well

Get the property information from the Land registry, if it is in your name, sell it and keep the money

I think it's a fair deal, you get the money, and rid of your disgusting family in one hit!

From what OP has said, on paper the mortgage is in OPs name, the tenants are renting from OP, the rent being paid covers the mortgage and everything else, leaving £70pcm.

So on paper OP is paying the mortgage - she's just not seeing any of the £70 profit. For 20 years!!

I can kind of see where your parents are coming from now. I misread and thought you lived there and pay mortgage.

So you don’t and have never paid anything towards the house?
But you want to sell it and use 100% of the money to buy somewhere else?
I do think that would be unfair as I assume this would be part of the inheritance for you and your siblings when your parents die, so you can’t have all of the money.

I would sit everyone down and say you want to buy your own place. You can’t profit from being a first time buyer and you’ve done them a favour by putting it in your name so they don’t pay tax.
So either you can sell the flat and share the money out with you taking a larger amount due to the above or they can give you your larger share of the flat in cash so they can keep the flat either in your name or put it in one of theirs.

Sorry I see you said you are in your 40s. Do you own another property as welll or just this one?

@Fedduup32

Yes definitely in my name as the paperwork for new tent ants always has my name as landlord and and then bank details are in my name which I have no access to as they made me sign a letter that gives them authority to operate my account (it’s a business account) on my behalf.

Contact the bank and remove their access

OP you are really in a better position than you think.

The house is yours, take control.

Enough. Take control over your own life. Your parents aren’t very nice people, nothing is going to change that. It’s not fair but make your peace with that fact. Now start putting yourself first. Get a solicitor, get advice, get it sorted. Afterward go NC with your family. Doesn’t sound like they add to your life in any way. And move forward in your life, unshackled.

As ll you have legal liabilities and responsibilities. These are not absolved by employing an agent. The annual tax returns cannot be filed on your behalf without your express authority. You need a solicitor asap as you are potentially being financially abused and at risk of accusation of fraud and tax evasion. Is the mortgage in your name too? Was there any reason your parents took control initially, were you having a difficult time and you did so willing at the time perhaps?

Others have provided plenty of good practical advice, but I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry you've been treated this way. From what you've written, they are abusing you emotionally and financially. Writing this is a very positive first step. Wishing you courage for the next bit

@mrsm43s

Whilst this is absolutely a tax evasion, I disagree that it's OP's property morally. Presumably she didn't put down the deposit, and she isn't paying the mortgage out of her own pocket. That's the reason why she isn't being paid the rental income, because it is not her who has invested the money. The income morally belongs to whoever actually paid for the investment. The property being in OPs name is merely a technicality morally.

I think it is reasonable for OP to say she no longer wishes to have her name associated with the property, and to ask her parents to transfer into their names. This will of course mean that up to 40% inheritance tax will be payable if they still own the property (or proceeds from it) on their death. And it will be go into the pot to be split between all the siblings rather than going directly to OP. But if that's what OP wants, then she should address that with her parents.

In her parent's defence, I would say that this arrangement has been made to benefit OP in the future via reduced IT, and I'd be pretty cross if one of my children was demanding money from an investment of mine that they had paid literally nothing into whatsoever. This is equivalent to when elderly parents sign their property over to their children to protect their children's inheritance - and then the children instantly consider the property their own and try to evict their own parents. Legally the property may be theirs, but morally it belongs to the parents, and the (illegal and ill advised) transaction was done purely to benefit the children in the future.

I would agree that if the parents paid a deposit, they should get that back, but it sounds as though the rent paid by the tenant has been used to pay the mortgage

@mrsm43s

Whilst this is absolutely a tax evasion, I disagree that it's OP's property morally. Presumably she didn't put down the deposit, and she isn't paying the mortgage out of her own pocket. That's the reason why she isn't being paid the rental income, because it is not her who has invested the money. The income morally belongs to whoever actually paid for the investment. The property being in OPs name is merely a technicality morally.

I think it is reasonable for OP to say she no longer wishes to have her name associated with the property, and to ask her parents to transfer into their names. This will of course mean that up to 40% inheritance tax will be payable if they still own the property (or proceeds from it) on their death. And it will be go into the pot to be split between all the siblings rather than going directly to OP. But if that's what OP wants, then she should address that with her parents.

In her parent's defence, I would say that this arrangement has been made to benefit OP in the future via reduced IT, and I'd be pretty cross if one of my children was demanding money from an investment of mine that they had paid literally nothing into whatsoever. This is equivalent to when elderly parents sign their property over to their children to protect their children's inheritance - and then the children instantly consider the property their own and try to evict their own parents. Legally the property may be theirs, but morally it belongs to the parents, and the (illegal and ill advised) transaction was done purely to benefit the children in the future.

A property signed over which parents are living in nothing like this situation. OP has huge liabilities as the house is being rented out in her name and she is financially and legally liable. If the gas safety inspection isn't carried out and someone is sick or dies as a result she will be criminally responsible.

I'm sorry your mother is financially abusing you. Your parents are financially abusing you. And your siblings sound as if they are emotionally abusing you as well.

Not only should you be taking legal and tax advice, please consider therapy to help you work through what must have been a difficult childhood with these people.

They have the deeds I don’t, there’s paperwork every so often I sign when new tenants come but when I question them I get screamed at and questioned why I don’t trust them.

If you can get half an hour of free solicitor advice I would try and use it to ask what happens if you don’t have the deeds and how you can get them. Without them deeds you can’t sell the house and they have full control so you may need to threaten court action if they don’t hand the deeds over.
They should have given you these when they asked to put it in your name, they knew exactly what they were doing! They sound very manipulative!

All the mortgage company and get all future paperwork sent to your address. Call the bank and revoke your parents authority on the account and then change the address on that too.

Then sell the house.

@Faranth

And OP, you eed to see a solicitor first, before a counselling - you don't have time to emotionally unpick what your parents are like, you need to protect yourself legally first, as a matter of urgency.

This is true, or at least get the ball rolling with both - as soon as your parents know you're starting to sort this situation the tighter they will grip, you need a solicitor ASAP.

And stop signing forms! next time they ask you,. say no, not until you have your questions answered