To think the name 'Karen' is only considered misogynistic because it refers to white women?

[FloofyCushion]

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

@TheGoogleMum

I think Karen is misogynistic but I think those other names are racist and would never use them either. Luckily I haven't seen them used much but I am sure they are just as misogynistic too. Can't we agree they are all bad?

Isn’t that the problem though. Instead of posters just saying that they are all ‘bad’ are trying to say “I haven’t heard them”, “they’re us centric (as is Karen but hey ho), etc…. You have @znaika upthread claiming the OP is trying to divide (and conquer?) but actually the OP is trying to highlight racism is rife on mumsnet but only words that affect white women are jumped on.

If the 'Karens' don't like being called Karen, they shouldn't act like a Karen. It's a name linked to a stereotype for a reason. The ones who get mad about it are the ones who fit the stereotype.

If their name is actually Karen, they should know the nickname Karen doesn't apply to them unless they fit the stereotype, in which case they probably deserve the nickname.

@SaskiaRembrandt if there is a contradiction feel free to point it out!

No one that I have seen on this thread is suggesting we don't talk about racism. But that talk should be effective. Statistics, real life UK examples of systematic racism. AKala the rapper has some interesting things to say about race and the us and the UK.

I fail to see how calling middle aged women Karen's because they dare to express a non racist opinion, helps stop racism.
Racism in the UK is absolutely there, but it looks very different to the us. By exporting their problems you minimise our own and ensure nothing practical is done.

Racism in the UK in particular is interwoven with class, opportunity and education. Address this if you want to make a difference. A good start would be looking at how Ofsted is used as a stick to beat schools who happen to have a higher ratio of black and white working class families. Calling institutions like this to account is far better than calling women names on the internet.

I never said this. I said that racism in the uk would have a different flavour. You are being used ro help stoke hate. That is all. The op is either american or being used by americans to put forth an agenda. Are Americans all arseholes? Categorically not but the political machinations controlling the narrative are us based, yes

@RaindropsOnRosie

If the 'Karens' don't like being called Karen, they shouldn't act like a Karen. It's a name linked to a stereotype for a reason. The ones who get mad about it are the ones who fit the stereotype.

If their name is actually Karen, they should know the nickname Karen doesn't apply to them unless they fit the stereotype, in which case they probably deserve the nickname.

Judging by social media, I think it's quite easy to be called a Karen if you are a woman with an opinion.

@znaika

I never said this. I said that racism in the uk would have a different flavour. You are being used ro help stoke hate. That is all. The op is either american or being used by americans to put forth an agenda. Are Americans all arseholes? Categorically not but the political machinations controlling the narrative are us based, yes

Agree

My main point is that women are stronger together. This hate stuff is not organic it is planned ( see the stuff on the feminism bpard that has been hidden as much as poasible) there are forces at work here.

You are my sisters and i will stand up for you in real life where it counts

black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

They are all deeply misogynistic as well as racist. The Karen thing is misogynistic and another shitty stick to beat women with. (the original Karen was, IIRC, a racist)

If the 'Karens' don't like being called Karen, they shouldn't act like a Karen. It's a name linked to a stereotype for a reason. The ones who get mad about it are the ones who fit the stereotype.

How exactly is the name linked to a stereotype for a reason? What reason would that be?

Why not use your words and call the behaviour for what it is, instead of using a lazy stereotype.

Yay another Karen bunfight. It's my name. Ghastly woman hating shit but I've learned that the beauty of this particular sexist put down is that if you object to it, you 'prove the point'. I used to make long posts on SM about the woman blaming inherent in Karen, but it just invites bellends to say 'oh no Karen's upset!' or (extreme wit incoming) 'do you want me to get the manager?'.

I live in Edinburgh, not Ohio. Shaniqua isn't a thing on any social media I've ever been on, and our police force don't carry guns. But go off blaming women for male violence.

@Faithless12 I would, and I do when confronted with racism in real life, casual or otherwise. I have a black colleague who was being treated terribly by her then manager. I knew her and the quality of her work well. I suspected he didn’t like the colour of her skin. She wouldn’t report it, and I understand why, so I did. A short while later he left. I don’t say this to act like some saviour but to demonstrate that as infrequent as these situations may be to me, I will never not act when I do see them.

@RaindropsOnRosie

If the 'Karens' don't like being called Karen, they shouldn't act like a Karen. It's a name linked to a stereotype for a reason. The ones who get mad about it are the ones who fit the stereotype.

If their name is actually Karen, they should know the nickname Karen doesn't apply to them unless they fit the stereotype, in which case they probably deserve the nickname.

I've seen it lobbed at women for expressing totally reasonable opinions about utterly normal subjects. Article about planning applications for example Woman comments underneath "not a fan of this, the design doesn't fit with the local architecture" Male responds "shut up Karen"

The stereotype now seems to be woman, with an opinion, about anything.

@RaindropsOnRosie

If the 'Karens' don't like being called Karen, they shouldn't act like a Karen. It's a name linked to a stereotype for a reason. The ones who get mad about it are the ones who fit the stereotype.

If their name is actually Karen, they should know the nickname Karen doesn't apply to them unless they fit the stereotype, in which case they probably deserve the nickname.

What is 'acting like a Karen?' Pray tell.

@RaindropsOnRosie

If the 'Karens' don't like being called Karen, they shouldn't act like a Karen. It's a name linked to a stereotype for a reason. The ones who get mad about it are the ones who fit the stereotype.

If their name is actually Karen, they should know the nickname Karen doesn't apply to them unless they fit the stereotype, in which case they probably deserve the nickname.

🙄

@Doidontimmm

Starting a thread like this makes you just as bad as those that use the name OP. What is your motivation?

So if we ignore it, will it go away?

@znaika

My main point is that women are stronger together. This hate stuff is not organic it is planned ( see the stuff on the feminism bpard that has been hidden as much as poasible) there are forces at work here.

You are my sisters and i will stand up for you in real life where it counts

That!

Ignore what? Maybe post again in a predominantly US forum?

@RaindropsOnRosie

If the 'Karens' don't like being called Karen, they shouldn't act like a Karen. It's a name linked to a stereotype for a reason. The ones who get mad about it are the ones who fit the stereotype.

If their name is actually Karen, they should know the nickname Karen doesn't apply to them unless they fit the stereotype, in which case they probably deserve the nickname.

Rational debate not your strong point then.

Those other terms are racist and misogynist. I've never heard them but would call them out if I did.

As a PP has pointed out, that's a US tweet. Not only for using the ghastly term Hispanics (which is racist in itself - go you) but that the Asian name is a Chinese one rather than what we would consider Asian in the U.K.

We have our own issues with racism in the U.K. We don't need to import US racism.

What is 'acting like a Karen?' Pray tell.

Being a woman, and having an opinion seems to do it.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@aSofaNearYou I dont think the racism of white men (lynchings, shootings etc) has ever been hidden in the US. Personally I have found this lifting of the lid on the racism practiced by white women very eye opening. Just because it is also uncomfortable doesnt mean it shouldn't be labelled or talked about.[/quote]
But those things aren't labelled, are they. They are not referred to as "male racism", they are just seen as racism. It's never targeted at men. I don't think it's wrong by any means to talk about racism from women, but I do think the way it is currently being highlighted is disproportionate and notably different from the equivalent behaviour from men, and that is a symptom of a wider, societal problem in the treatment of women.

And as I've touched upon already, I am sick to death of the double standards. Racism is seen as more important than misogyny. Similarly, things like homophobia are seen as more important than misogyny. Misogyny is the only kind of bigotry that is seen as fair game when it comes to helping raise awareness for other marginalised groups. Take, for example, my example of creating a stereotype for misogynistic BAME men. It would never fly.

@znaika sorry I don’t believe in the girls sticking up for each other fantasy. Would be great if it is true but I think most women put family, class and racial allegiances higher than sticking up for other women.

Maybe I’m a pessimist but it’s just what I’ve seen.

My thoughts OP are that it can be useful to consider who benefits from something.

Who benefits from trying to pit white women against BAME women?

It isn't any women that is for sure.

Very true, sofa. We can't stop men from killing each other and us, so let's blame women for somehow making the men do it. Same shit that goes back to the Old Testament.