To think the name 'Karen' is only considered misogynistic because it refers to white women?

[FloofyCushion]

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

Yabu

AresholeS, sorry. This prick would not do this stuff alone, he does it knowing that other arseholes have his back.

@UsedUpUsername ah, that wasn’t my understanding from Phishy’s posts. She said that the meme had empowered black women including the young woman who filmed George Flloyd’s murder.

I don’t use the term Karen but why would I object to that woman using the term if it empowered her?

But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority.

The first part is only partly true. It's more white women, but not only. The second part is not true at all. 'Karen' means any woman who stands up for herself.

I was on the train the other day. A bloke was going on (to random strangers) about how Covid is just like flu and he didn't need to wear a mask or get a vaccine because he's healthy. I felt like disagreeing. But if I had, I'd have been a 'Karen' while he'd have been a person with an opinion.

This is what Karen means, for women. It means 'shut up and keep your head down'.

Divisive behaviour hurts everyone im really really fucked off with people dividing everything down to it only effects white women therfore its fine or it only effects black women therfore its fine

Its not fine its not OK its supremely unhelpful and divisive

Divide and conquer. Because it’s woman who have all the power, eh?

Karen isn’t considered a racial slur because it was originally about white women. In general it seems that being racist is considered to be worse than being misogynistic. That is why the Karen meme won’t get you sacked at work.

@stairway

Karen isn’t considered a racial slur because it was originally about white women. In general it seems that being racist is considered to be worse than being misogynistic. That is why the Karen meme won’t get you sacked at work.

Say what? Are whites not a race now... Only whites are racist huh?

Women of all races and backgrounds suffer misogyny, none of it is acceptable and we shouldn't be giving men a free pass to abuse a 'certain type' of woman.

This.

I haven't seen it used to shut women up generally though.

Only seen it used to refer to a white women who've shown racist and entitled behaviour and have been caught red-handed esp on social media.

It has been explained several times on this thread that using the other racist names (for WOC) is racism and misogyny even if you have never seen it - it still exists. And it is true for Karen too. Didn't you read the thread? A woman politely asking people not to use helium balloons and explaining why gets called Karen. And that means: Woman, STFU, know your place (and that place is not talking)

I do think that the comment about it only coming up when it happens to white women is valid. But we also have a comment here from someone who isn't white saying she doesn't care about misogyny against white women because she isn't and it doesn't affect her. I have thoughts about that but no time to articulate.

I remain of the opinion that racism, sexism, misogyny, ableism, homophobia is wrong and i will continue to challenge it whenever i can (sometimes for personal safety it isn't possible)

But we also have a comment here from someone who isn't white saying she doesn't care about misogyny against white women because she isn't and it doesn't affect her. I have thoughts about that but no time to articulate.

Who said that?

It’s not about ‘slagging off’. It’s about being able to speak up when being abused and call that person out. I’ve seen videos where a black woman has been able to say in a shaky voice ‘you’re a Karen’ to the white woman abusing her.

Let's say its the word Karen being used as an insult that empowered these women. I will assume that's right. That, the word racisit didn't have the impact that Karen does on these people. When I comes to racists, I can see that being true, tbh. Calling a racist, racist seems to be like water off a ducks back.

The fact that, mainly, white men have decided that this term actually means 'shut up woman' aimed at all women, Including black women, is even worse.

I don't like the use of any actual name being used as a slur. But if Karen had remained as its 'you are a racisit' meaning, not used in everyday language. I don't think people would be as annoyed by it.

But people have started objecting to it, because its not being used to draw attention to a woman who is clearly racist but thinks her US middle class position makes it OK. They have started objecting to it, because its being used against all women speaking on any issue.

Woman reports man for threats of sexual violence = Karen
WoC getting evidence of men engaging with a minor filming explicit behaviour and taking it to the police = Karen
Women (of all colours) fighting sexisin in the work place = Karen
Women minding their own business on a group holiday = Karen's.

This is the point. People started objecting to Karen in Large numbers, because it was impacting all women. Because its not about fighting racisim anymore. It's about getting women, all women to shut up.

I didn't know anyone who objected to it when it was used calling out a racisit. When it was used in the context it was used a lot less.

On both sides of the Atlantic. White men are using it to silence women. It's meaning within 'calling out' racist behaviour, is gone.

But oddly, seems to have divided women further. Now women are arguing about why people object to it. And assuming it's white women objecting to it, because white women don't like being called names. Rather than actually, lots of us of all different ethnicities, races, cultures etc are objecting. Because its harming all women.

The other names on the list are foul too. Not commonly used in the part of the UK I am in. Out if that list, I have heard of LL more. Where its used to mock the person's country of origin accent, language and name with also sexism thrown in. All of them have racisim, sexisim, class-ism all thrown in. Well I say all of them. I had only ever heard 2.

On the flip side of this, I think the tide is turning and I do see more people challenging people throwing 'OK, Karen' comments around. So in a year or 2 I believe it won't be used.

Really interesting that op lit this little fire and the tucked off. Leaving women to argue about it. With no more input.

Feels like, yet again, women talking about what impacts women, being used for someone else entertainment

@Goldielow

Yep. There have been stereotypes on other races for absolutely years, but nothing gets outrage like a white person being insulted in the same way. Even though they weren't called Karen's when I worked in retail, we had "One of those" at least once a day, a Karen before they were named Karens. They would come in, act better than everyone else, try to make you feel bad about yourself and would think they had authority because they didn't work behind that till. "I'm the customer and I am not satisfied with this service" And it's not an age thing. Look online and you'll see "Karen" as a label for any age, a viral video last week showed a Karen in her 20s screaming in a shop over a black woman. Or if you look on Facebook and see mother's groups where that one mum always comes out and says someone else is a bad mum for daring to feed her children frozen food, people call her a Karen. If you're offended but don't think you do that, then why are you offended? It's not aimed at you?

OP I think you're very right.

Did you rtft? A few posts back someone said her dd called her a Karen for asking to sit at a different table in a restaurant.

Could you explain in what way this is acting like a Karen in your book?

And well done for buying into the misogynistic bollocks. 🙄

I’m making my way through the thread. I am so sorry to read how children at school were dismissed and suffered horrible racist abuse. And how some people continue to be abused. I hope society and schools have moved on since then.

It was acceptable to be racist when I was at school. I didn’t participate. The only time I did anything to protect my friends of Pakistani origin, was to block a nasty girl in our TA class from going to say nasty things to them. Years later, I met up with one of the now women and we were talking about this girl from school and she had no idea I’d done this regularly throughout the last 2 years of secondary.

I’m not physically strong enough to put myself in danger so was never brave enough to shout on street corners. But I do the subtle things. If everyone did the same, the world would be much nicer.

As for Karen, it is a misogynistic slur used against all women. And I suspect teen girls as well. My 13 yo already knows about this term. Imo women should stick together regardless of our ethnic origins and background.

women should stick together regardless of our ethnic origins and background. I agree but anticipate that BAME women, to pick up on the point OP raised, may think “you only stick together when it affects you” and I understand that sentiment.

I’ve tried in this thread to explain how for my part, that is true. Not because I’m racist, but because the problems WOC experience by virtue of their skin colour or ethnicity are not something I can directly relate to as it generally does not occur in my sphere of existence. Where I witnessed racism in my workplace, I acted and always will.

@TheSlayer using the example of her child articulated this far better than me with her post below.

*I think you're mistaking 'not an immediate concern' to 'not caring'.

As I stated before. I doubt anyone on this thread is horrible to the disabled, uses the word spastic etc.
But I doubt it's their number one priority. This doesn't mean they don't care. Perhaps many of them give to charities that help disability. Who knows. Maybe they use their time to campaign for women's rights, or BLM or whatever else their passion is.
Just because something isn't centre stage in everyone's world, doesn't mean people don't care or are 'ist'.
I don't expect cp to be top of everyone's priorities. I expect people to vote for initiatives that help people like my son and are not openly mean.
I don't expect everyone to have it at centre front(it'd be great if it was, but I understand everyone has different properties)
I fight for my son and as long as people are mindful and not discriminatory, that's all I can ask.*

The “Karen” meme distorts things. This was adopted by black women (or men too) to call out racist behaviour and so was always different to the other names OP quoted that are used as both racial and misogynistic slurs. I don’t think anyone disputes that they are both. Now Karen which, in terms of adoption by black people didn’t have roots in misogyny, has been adopted by mostly men to denigrate any woman using their voice, regardless of race and colour. So in this specific scenario, calling out the usage of it benefits all women.

@KittenKong

Divide and conquer. Because it’s woman who have all the power, eh?

No we don’t which is why it’s very interesting that a lot of men feel so threatened by us having opinions.

Nasty women mustn’t have opinions eh? They might start getting ideas or something...

Just spotted this on Twitter: twitter.com/nicolelampert/status/1420073307072831490

I really hope it's not real.

You don't need a Twitter account to see it.

I have literally never heard any of the other names but Karen is slung about a lot by the hard of thinking trying to shut down discussions. If the other names are used in the same way I oppose them in the same way.

Black women in the US are killed more than any other group
Wrong. It's black MEN, by a vast nargin

Wrong. It's black MEN, by a vast nargin

I think she means of any group of women.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Wrong. It's black MEN, by a vast nargin

I think she means of any group of women.

Yes, sorry that's what I meant. Apologies for not being clear.

@Marguerite2000

Black women in the US are killed more than any other group Wrong. It's black MEN, by a vast nargin

I think it's black women (or BAME, don't remember) who get the lowest pay though

Of course it's misogynistic, it's now used as a slur to silence all women.

Remember women, be kind or men (and women with internalized misogyny) will shout you down.

Consider that there simply must be a reason why videos of women behaving badly surface and are subject to such public opprobrium and deserving of the original use of Karen, but you don't see the equivalent for men. For men, the incident has to be much more serious before it merits attention.

So many women are complicit in the oppression of other women. Either actively or through ignorance. You can see it on thread after thread on here. The use of terms like bitch and cow, the scorn poured on stepmothers, the scorn poured on mothers. Its endless. We've all seen the oh so useful, well why did you have kids with a loser type of rhetoric, because it's always the woman"s fault.

Women need to stop fighting other women and develop a truer sense of sisterhood. We need to stop warring over men. In the main most aren't worth it anyway.

Thinly veiled divisive posts like this are a huge part of the problem. No the use of Karen is not ok no matter how it originated or whom it is directed at, and neither are the others. Trying to justify the use of them by some arbitrary scale of insult level or who deserves to be oppressed the most or least by the patriarchy is both ridiculous and counter productive. Life is shit for so many women who still carry the burden of the majority of housework, the mental load of a marriage, the majority of childcare, the pressure to look a certain way, the pension gap, sexism in the workplace, the inability to feel safe in public spaces, domestic violence, etc etc etc. Given that it's so shit, why make it worse for each other as the OP has attempted? Of course maybe the OP is a man who enjoys using white as a pejorative to stoke tension amongst women. Man or woman, their attempt to divide should be treated with the derision it deserves.

@TooYoungToNotice

Of course it's misogynistic, it's now used as a slur to silence all women.

Remember women, be kind or men (and women with internalized misogyny) will shout you down.

Consider that there simply must be a reason why videos of women behaving badly surface and are subject to such public opprobrium and deserving of the original use of Karen, but you don't see the equivalent for men. For men, the incident has to be much more serious before it merits attention.

So many women are complicit in the oppression of other women. Either actively or through ignorance. You can see it on thread after thread on here. The use of terms like bitch and cow, the scorn poured on stepmothers, the scorn poured on mothers. Its endless. We've all seen the oh so useful, well why did you have kids with a loser type of rhetoric, because it's always the woman"s fault.

Women need to stop fighting other women and develop a truer sense of sisterhood. We need to stop warring over men. In the main most aren't worth it anyway.

Thinly veiled divisive posts like this are a huge part of the problem. No the use of Karen is not ok no matter how it originated or whom it is directed at, and neither are the others. Trying to justify the use of them by some arbitrary scale of insult level or who deserves to be oppressed the most or least by the patriarchy is both ridiculous and counter productive. Life is shit for so many women who still carry the burden of the majority of housework, the mental load of a marriage, the majority of childcare, the pressure to look a certain way, the pension gap, sexism in the workplace, the inability to feel safe in public spaces, domestic violence, etc etc etc. Given that it's so shit, why make it worse for each other as the OP has attempted? Of course maybe the OP is a man who enjoys using white as a pejorative to stoke tension amongst women. Man or woman, their attempt to divide should be treated with the derision it deserves.

Yep! this times a million!!