To think the name 'Karen' is only considered misogynistic because it refers to white women?

[FloofyCushion]

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

The issue @OhWhyNot is that the term has been appropriated to mean something different to that which it was originally intended (if you leave the intel origins out of it for now). So if as a white woman I’m called a Karen because I’ve been racist then that absolutely needs to be called out (except let’s just call me a racist). I didn’t know until a few weeks ago though that these were the origins of the term because it’s now so widely used to criticise women, usually of a certain age who expresses unhappiness at something, completely unconnected to race. So for example, my neighbour is very active in getting our council to deal with pest control, missed bin collections etc. Someone called her “a total Karen”. The experience of many white woman on this thread is that it is now a misogynistic slur.

Does that make sense?

@TheSlayer

The people who filmed the George Floyd incident were very brave. I would not have been able to film or argue with volatile men with guns.

A 17yo black girl filmed the murder, whilst being threatened by the white male officer. If she hadn’t filmed, they would have got away with it.

This is what the Karen meme has done - empowered black women to film and document abuse and murder.

^incel

@OhWhyNot

Agree op

What comes across often in these threads isn’t misogyny is how dare they call ME that

Sort of proving the point. How dare non working class white women be challenged

But it's not just 'non working class white women' being called this. And why shouldn't women be pissed off, if they haven't done anything wrong yet are shut down with an ageist, sexist term?

I'm aware of who filmed it. I don't think the word Karen played any part in that choice.

In Britain it empowers misogyny chiefly.

It's someone's name. Why is it awful to use the other names in the op to invoke stereotypes but Karen is fairgame.

I know how it has evolved

I don’t remember anyone getting quite so hot under the collar about the term gammon it was thrown around often because it refers to working class white men we still have many threads sneering at names considered common/chavy

But offend white non working class then it’s suddenly totally and utterly unacceptable

About five years ago it was the term white privileged. How dare anyone be called out on this the uproar it caused on MN was as passionate as the Karen threads

Does it really just take a name to shut women down. Really? No it’s what is implied that is making so many feel uncomfortable

If you woke up from a 2 year coma, you’d think that Karen killed George Floyd not Derek.

Although tbf, if Derek identifies as a woman to get into a women’s jail, he could use Karen as his new name.

@TheSlayer

I'm aware of who filmed it. I don't think the word Karen played any part in that choice.

In Britain it empowers misogyny chiefly.

It's someone's name. Why is it awful to use the other names in the op to invoke stereotypes but Karen is fairgame.

If you were aware, why did you say the ‘people who filmed it’? It was one black girl.

And yes Karen did play a part in it. She said she felt she had to document it, she will have seen similar videos on YouTube. More and more black people are filming racist abuse, and surprise surprise, white people hate it.

Except the Karen/can I speak to the manager haircut meme is aimed at white working class women.

You can’t presume to know what makes someone else uncomfortable, or even how something makes them feel at all.

This is what the Karen meme has done - empowered black women to film and document abuse and murder.
Why isn't the term 'Derek' used to shut white middle aged men down then, seeing as a man was the murderer? Woman asks to see the manager, she's the most despicable creature on the planet; man commits a racist murder, nothing. ALL these names are being used to shame and shut down women, to keep us in line. F*ck that.

I don't think the BLM movement needs to use name slurs to get its message across.

The fight against police brutality was up and running long before the Karen meme and should be able continue perfectly well without it.

Mumsnet has more women than men so it isn't surprising that a term used to silence the majority demographic on here draws the more ire than one for men particularly given it is an individual name.

As far as I was aware there was more than one video. Happy to be corrected but thought I had seen two from different angles.

Not happy with gammon either. I commented earlier on why. Recommend rtft.

More and more black people are filming racist abuse, and surprise surprise, white people hate it

Racist white people will hate it. Non racist white people will applaud and support it.

As others have said, this is a case of lost in transatlantic translation. But as it’s now been adopted in the UK in a sex rather than a race context, we need to challenge it as sexist.

But offend white non working class then it’s suddenly totally and utterly unacceptable
You're making the assumption that all the women objecting are white and non working class, which isn't the case. Also, the people using this term just throw it around without knowing a woman's race or economic status. It's just used for any woman expressing an opinion that usually a man objects to. These are the men who really f*cking hate women who know more than them about anything, or can argue better than them. Surely you must know this.

@OhWhyNot

I know how it has evolved

I don’t remember anyone getting quite so hot under the collar about the term gammon it was thrown around often because it refers to working class white men we still have many threads sneering at names considered common/chavy

But offend white non working class then it’s suddenly totally and utterly unacceptable

About five years ago it was the term white privileged. How dare anyone be called out on this the uproar it caused on MN was as passionate as the Karen threads

Does it really just take a name to shut women down. Really? No it’s what is implied that is making so many feel uncomfortable

For any and vcery person whose given name is Gammon, I apologise unverseredly for how has been used.

Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling

If I heard anyone talking like that I'd think they were a cunt

@Novelusername

This is what the Karen meme has done - empowered black women to film and document abuse and murder. Why isn't the term 'Derek' used to shut white middle aged men down then, seeing as a man was the murderer? Woman asks to see the manager, she's the most despicable creature on the planet; man commits a racist murder, nothing. ALL these names are being used to shame and shut down women, to keep us in line. F*ck that.

Maybe because there is no meme as sweet as 23.5 years in prison for murder? That’s what the man got.

America has a specific problem with white women using their femininity to get black people in trouble. See To Kill a Mocking Bird.

[quote phishy]@TheSlayer

The people who filmed the George Floyd incident were very brave. I would not have been able to film or argue with volatile men with guns.

A 17yo black girl filmed the murder, whilst being threatened by the white male officer. If she hadn’t filmed, they would have got away with it.

This is what the Karen meme has done - empowered black women to film and document abuse and murder.[/quote]
How exactly has slagging off white women empowered black women to document white men murdering black men?

Black women in the US are killed more than any other group. And you know who's killing them? Black men.

Women - whatever their race - are predominantly at risk of harm by men.

@OneTC

Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling

If I heard anyone talking like that I'd think they were a cunt

Or a prick, presumably, if we're avoiding sexism?

@phishy When I say smartphones are in the top 5 inventions of ALL time this is exactly what I mean. Of course the harassment of Black people is as old as time itself but that we can now document and share it is absolutely phenomenal. Amy Cooper et al. Thank heavens for smartphones.

White men kill black men in the USA, so British women must accept misogynistic slur.

Your logic does not resemble our earth logic.

How exactly has slagging off white women empowered black women to document white men murdering black men? confused

It’s not about ‘slagging off’. It’s about being able to speak up when being abused and call that person out. I’ve seen videos where a black woman has been able to say in a shaky voice ‘you’re a Karen’ to the white woman abusing her.

I don’t use the term Karen but why would I object to that woman using the term if it empowered her?

America has a specific problem with white women using their femininity to get black people in trouble. See To Kill a Mocking Bird.

I agree they do. But we’re responding to OP’s question as to why the term is considered misogynistic only when applied to white women, and i’d extend that to mean white women in the UK. It’s purely because it is used in a misogynistic context now. Those who use it in the UK will use it irrespective of whether the women is white or BAME.

@StatisticallyChallenged

It might be where it originated, but it's now used to silence women who dare to have an opinion or stand up for themselves. I only have to look at the comments under local news articles to inevitably see "shut up Karen " thrown at a woman.

True. The people who write "shut up Karen" under local news articles are far more likely to be making racist comments themselves than using Karen to call out racism IME. Not surprising really, as people who like stereotyping rarely restrict themselves to stereotyping only one group.

Phishy, in that scenario why would "you're a racist" not have done just as well?