To think the name 'Karen' is only considered misogynistic because it refers to white women?

[FloofyCushion]

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

That’s well articulated @TheSlayer

@DoolallyLully

I think they’re all misogynistic and racist.

It's all made-up stupidity. What genius hit on the name Karen for this bullying? If anyone thinks that the alleged type of behaviour is restricted to white women they need to get their head out of the sand.

@Spindless

That’s well articulated *@TheSlayer*

Agree.

@Dutch1e

Nothing becomes a feminist issue until it affects white women so yes, I agree with you OP.

I agree too.

I financially support Hibo Wardere's work to end FGM. It's not an issue that affects me personally, nor is it something that affects many white women. Does that make me an ally to black women?

I think it just makes me a feminist who would prefer to spend her time and energy supporting other women so we all rise up, rather than spending time tearing one another down.

I only ever see Karen used by other women!

@Clymene

I financially support Hibo Wardere's work to end FGM. It's not an issue that affects me personally, nor is it something that affects many white women. Does that make me an ally to black women?

I think it just makes me a feminist who would prefer to spend her time and energy supporting other women so we all rise up, rather than spending time tearing one another down.

Yy!!! Exactly we support each other if we want change. Resist the toxic crap that i have spent the day being drawn into

Hibo is an amazing woman and I have contributed towards her campaign. However, I don't think feminists need to financially support causes as long as they are actively supporting women. Even if that's as simple as resisting stereotypes and raising sons to respect women.

Nothing becomes a feminist issue until it affects white women so yes, I agree with you OP.
I don't know exactly what this means. Do you mean a misogynistic behaviour doesn't gain attention (where? Msm or social media, for example) until it affects white women? There's definitely a bias in news reporting eg. black woman murdered vs. white woman and how it's reported, but not sure how that relates to white feminists or what you think they're supposed to do about it. As pp mentioned, honour killings, FGM, forced marriages etc don't tend to affect white women, but they are still the subject of feminist campaigns, supported by white women. Women from the communities it affects will and should take the lead here, though, as they will have more experience and awareness of the culture to bring to the table, so not really sure what you're suggesting white women are guilty of here, or what you think they should do when it comes to calling out American terms for WOC many white UK women have never heard of .

My priority is women, not white women. As a human being with empathy, I also care about other issues that don't affect me like racism and homophobia. I wouldn't deem it appropriate to drag those people down, because my experience as a woman is "worse."

This.

I think that's a load of shit. I see a Karen plastered everywhere. I have never ever seen memes of those other names. It's become a huge way of abusing a woman of middle age. It has nothing to do with colour

What's the point of this thread? Is it to shame UK women (who will be majority white, that's just the demographic) for objecting to misogynistic slurs against them because slurs most of us will never have heard of are used against women in another country 4500 miles away?

What's the point of this thread?

If every thread on MN had to pass this rigorous test I doubt there'd be much left.

It just another word for ‘bitch’. Just another way to insult women with a single word that is just loaded with hate - sex, age, race and class (almost a full house).

And when you think of it, there are more male names used as a generalised insult in the U.K. - “Abdul/Mohammed/Mac/Jock/Paddy/Mick’ etc it doesn’t quite work with “Fatima/Flora/Gwen/Moira/Maya...”

@Alltheprettyseahorses
That's pretty much it.

Why are people saying Karen is ageist?
I've seen it used for white racist and entitled women of ALL ages. Definitely not an ageist slur.
As with any slur, I don't agree with it but I agree with OP that it's not misogynistic. No one is trying to tell white women to shut up and not have a voice by calling them Karen.
It's more a case of calling them out on social media for racist behaviour.

When it started to be ‘a thing’ it was aimed mostly at older, white women who would botch and moan about staff. Not it seems to be aimed at any women as a ‘shut up’ and ‘you are being completely unreasonable’. It’s the #nodebate of women.

@FloofyCushion

Karen started in the US didn't it? I've never personally heard those other names used in a derogatory way but I'm not an ethnic minority in the US. Just because I've never had personal experience of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You just blew your entire argument out of the water right there. As you said, the name calling of ethnic minorities is an American phenomenon, not a British one. As there is no equivalent here, your argument is built in an entirely false premise; if it isn’t a thing here, there is nothing to benchmark it against. Furthermore, why are you telling us it’s not ok to call out Karen as misogynistic when it isn’t just white women, who are being called Karen’s?

And btw I learned today my 13 yo dd has heard of the term Karen and thought it was funny. I’m having to deprogram quite a lot of misogynistic shit coming out of her mouth atm. I chewed her ear off about that one only this morning. I know 1000% that she would be appalled to hear any names attributed to ethnic minorities.

I totally am all for calling out racism and misogyny but I am thoroughly sick of the comparison to the US.

@TheSlayer

Hibo is an amazing woman and I have contributed towards her campaign. However, I don't think feminists need to financially support causes as long as they are actively supporting women. Even if that's as simple as resisting stereotypes and raising sons to respect women.

No of course we don't have to. My point really was that I don't think this makes me an 'ally'. It makes me a feminist, who is interested in supporting women and girls.

The point of this thread seems to be that there are a load of shitty misogynist names made up for American BAME women which also impact black British women so it's only fair that white women are called Karen.

None of us should put up with this shit. None of us. And every time any of us use one of these epithets against one another, we are playing right into the hands of the patriarchy.

Divide and rule. Works every time.

@HauteGirlSummer

Why are people saying Karen is ageist? I've seen it used for white racist and entitled women of ALL ages. Definitely not an ageist slur. As with any slur, I don't agree with it but I agree with OP that it's not misogynistic. No one is trying to tell white women to shut up and not have a voice by calling them Karen. It's more a case of calling them out on social media for racist behaviour.

That's the discussion.

It used to be aimed at older white women who were engaging in racisit behaviour.

But not its not. Its used against women of all races for either daring to have an opinion (and I am not talk racist opinions) or even just going about their daily business, in a lot of cases.

It is now just collective insult to make women feel shit about pretty much anything.

@Mummyoflittledragon There are British equivalents. Just because you have never come across them doesn't mean it "doesn't exist here."

What's the point of this thread?

If every thread on MN had to pass this rigorous test I doubt there'd be much left.

If there ever was a more selective quoting.....

@HauteGirlSummer

Why are people saying Karen is ageist? I've seen it used for white racist and entitled women of ALL ages. Definitely not an ageist slur. As with any slur, I don't agree with it but I agree with OP that it's not misogynistic. No one is trying to tell white women to shut up and not have a voice by calling them Karen. It's more a case of calling them out on social media for racist behaviour.

How many women in their 20s or younger are called Karen?

@HauteGirlSummer

Why are people saying Karen is ageist? I've seen it used for white racist and entitled women of ALL ages. Definitely not an ageist slur. As with any slur, I don't agree with it but I agree with OP that it's not misogynistic. No one is trying to tell white women to shut up and not have a voice by calling them Karen. It's more a case of calling them out on social media for racist behaviour.

But there are many posts on here explaining that it IS used to shut women up for having an opinion

WiSpa - a younger woman, not white.