To think the name 'Karen' is only considered misogynistic because it refers to white women?

[FloofyCushion]

I saw a tweet that said something along the lines of black women were referred to as Shaniqua for years, Hispanics as Maria or Guadalupe, and Asian women as Ling Ling. The only reason the name Karen is considered so offensive is because it refers to white women.

Whenever the term Karen is mentioned on here, posters will fall over themselves to say how misogynistic it is and that it silences women. But it doesn't refer to ALL women, only white women. A certain type of very entitled white woman that derives pleasure from getting people she believes to be beneath her into trouble with authority. Its also used for racist women that attempt to get black people arrested for simply existing in close proximity to them.

All of the stereotypical names for ethnic minorities were never considered misogynistic, although they were racist. Obviously calling someone a Karen for simply speaking up for herself is horrible, but isn't it more prejudice than misogyny? It seems like stereotyping women's names according to their race was never a problem until it happened to white women. Interested to hear what other people think.

@TheSlayer

Surely the fact that teens cling to Karen but understand racism, homophobia etc is wrong just underlines the fact that misogyny is accepted largely by society.

Which is why women who object to Karen are told to shut up.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

Its generally considered unacceptable to continue to use a slur after people who are affected by it have asked you not to; unless the people affected are women.

This only benefits sexist men. It would be really easy to come up with a word to replace 'Karen' that isn't misogynistic.

@aSofaNearYou you've completely ignored my experiences in favour of your own.

Which post please? I must have missed that.

@TheSlayer

Surely the fact that teens cling to Karen but understand racism, homophobia etc is wrong just underlines the fact that misogyny is accepted largely by society.

Which is why women who object to Karen are told to shut up.

Thank you @TheSlayer

That was exactly my point.

I don't understand why people find it so difficult to just allow for misogyny to also matter.

Indeed, or to recognise that it’s intersectional. White women are affected by misogyny. Women of colour face the double whammy of racism and misogyny. LGBT women of colour face the triple whammy of racism, misogyny and homophobia, and so on. But misogyny is a pervasive prejudice experienced by all those groups.

[quote phishy]@aSofaNearYou you've completely ignored my experiences in favour of your own.[/quote]
How so? I haven't in the slightest.

No white woman has ever made me feel their feelings are more important. Or that issues that impact but not them don't exist.

But obviously these white women do exist, people say they do. How does telling them to suck up sexisim because 'it's not as bad as what I have to face' helping? Which women is it helping? Because its not helping wome of colour?

As a mixed race person, I have constantly been told I don't suffer racisim because I am paler than than family. By the side of the family who are not white.

Some knobeads in the white side of my family are just racist cunts.

I can acknowledge that, actually as someone with paler skin, I do get things easier than dark skinned women. But harder than white women. But I also get racisim from both sides of my family.

I don't feel I am fully part of either. I think that part is where I draw the shitty straw. So do I expect people from one ethnic background to ignore their own feelings for me. Because in some ways I might have it worse? That neither community really accepts me?

Why can't we just all accept sexisim is shit. And should be challenged.

What's the aim for women of colour? In regards to feminism. Are we just aiming to be in whites women's position? More privileged than some other women......but still below men.

Is that the goal? To get to this white woman nirvana that doesn't exist? Which is still unequal to men?

I would rather stand up to racism and sexisim and homophobia, regardless of who it happens to. Not gleefully titter away at these things because they are happening to a group I think have it easy.

But that isn't how it is used now.

It is no used to silence women. Any woman who dares to complain or voice an opinion. It is no longer race specific. It mainly targets middle aged women but not exclusively.

I've heard black women referred to as Shaniqua but not in the same way as Karen is used now, I know how it originated and was meant to refer to but you go on Social media these days and any woman with any sort of opinion that someone (usually men but women use it too) wants to shut down is just told Go away Karen, shut up Karen etc etc

@Katedanielshasakitty very interesting observations.

@JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon

But that isn't how it is used now.

It is no used to silence women. Any woman who dares to complain or voice an opinion. It is no longer race specific. It mainly targets middle aged women but not exclusively.

Exactly. It's not used to call out racisim. It's used to shut ALL women up.

So that's why ALL women should be opposed to it.

I think all of the examples you raise are vile, OP. Racist and misogynistic. But I take your point.

[quote TheSlayer]@Katedanielshasakitty very interesting observations.[/quote]
I am sorry if I offended you. I am not always the best are writing my feelings out.

They're all horrible terms. All sexist and the other names are racist too, and look how they're used to divide us.

Men must be pissing themselves laughing at us arguing over what misogynistic terms they created are acceptable for us to use against each other.

@Polkadots2021 actually it originated as a name which lots of women still have

So that's why ALL women should be opposed to it.

Please don’t speak for me. My experience as a BAME woman differs vastly from those of white women. There is no equivalence, you are much more privileged than me.

BAME women are my priority, we are at the bottom of the heap, and I won’t wag my finger at them for using the term Karen when challenging racism.

I don't deny my white privilege and I'm not crying, but I'm allowed to object to a term that I consider reflective of my own oppression. Also I would and do object to terms reflective of other people's oppression, like shaniqua now I've heard it and anything else I think is racist or misogynistic. I can choose not to listen to someone who thinks it's OK to use any of those terms too.

I, along with quite a few others on here, have never heard the terms of abuse "Shaniqua", etc., so why are we being accused of being racist for not protesting against their use?

@phishy

So that's why ALL women should be opposed to it.

Please don’t speak for me. My experience as a BAME woman differs vastly from those of white women. There is no equivalence, you are much more privileged than me.

BAME women are my priority, we are at the bottom of the heap, and I won’t wag my finger at them for using the term Karen when challenging racism.

Did you even read my post?

I am not white!

And that's my opinion. That ALL women should be opposed to any sexisim.

I dint speak for anyone I gave my opinion. Which you couldn't even be arsed to read.

So, thanks, but I don't need your concern.

@TheSlayer

Let's try this another way op. What steps do you think would be more effective to tackle racism and sexism in the UK than calling people Karen?

I think schools should ensure they have at least 50% representation of women in the curriculum, a good balance of black and Asian Brits and a good understanding of the problems caused by empire.

I'd like grammar schools to be merged into the general population and grammar streams to be regularly teacher and outside agency(not tests) monitored, with mentoring in place for children of all backgrounds to ensure opportunity for gifted children regardless of race.

I'd like the minimum wage to be raised and inner cities in particular to build industry that can allow people of all races to earn a livable wage.

I'd like the police to be thoroughly reformed to ensure racial and misogynistic instances are treated with the gravity they deserve.

I'd like statues etc that depict slavers to be either signed as such or be put in museums where all the facts, not just cherry picked ones are layed bare.

I'd like good representation of women and black and Asian Brits on currency in statues and television.

I'd like racist incidents to be fully investigated including how they originated and can be prevented. This would mean using money not just placating words.

All of this can be accomplished without name calling.

Oh, it was you!

As I said, I wasn't ignoring you. I don't feel qualified to answer (and there are far too many posts on here to answer each one individually).

@Katedanielshasakitty yo ur post didn’t say your race and it’s irrelevant, you don’t speak for me so don’t tell me what I should be opposed to. Or is it only you that’s allowed an opinion?

That should say did you read my posts

@Coyoacan

I, along with quite a few others on here, have never heard the terms of abuse "Shaniqua", etc., so why are we being accused of being racist for not protesting against their use?

And yet you expect everyone to know the roots of Karen

@thecatsthecats

It wasn't a race isaue at first, but a class one - women who demand to speak to the manager, and patronise, bully and belittle service staff. (I'd say lower middle class, based on the "Karen" haircut)

Obviously it's been coopted by all sorts, but I'd say that the predominant victims of "Karen" behaviour were female also. Whatever it's become, I find the MN interpretation of it as "silencing women for standing up for themselves" a bit off kilter. Because complaints about "Karens" originated from exactly that - women standing up against rude and entitled behaviour directed at them. Rude and entitled behaviour IS the target. I've never heard of a woman being labelled a Karen for doing anything reasonable.

(I'd hazard a guess that women in service roles would face different challenges from rude and entitled men, i.e. unwanted flirting or sexual advances.)

Really.

I got called a Karen for pointing out that the Disability Discrimination Act protected disabled people against being excluded from premises if they couldn't wear a mask.

Aren't I rude and entitled standing up for the rights of another minority group?

It is absolutely just a way of shutting down any woman you disagree with.