Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

[Meraas]

@JaniieJones

'always find it funny when white people almost decree defiantly'

'White people'? Imagine if we changed 'white' for 'black'or 'Asian', that would be racist wouldn't it? Try not to be bigoted. Call posters out yes, but stop the generalised 'white people' crap.

Oh do stop playing the racism card. It's tedious.

[lifehappened]

Ive heard that from welsh people a lot too but no it's not racism, just rude AF

[TitchGreen]

@Meraas I'm quite severly dyslexic, while I do proof read before posting, I'm not infallible, grammatical mistakes happen.

You're not going to shame me because of it.

[Meraas]

No one’s trying to shame you love, I factually stated that the post wasn’t well said.

[SueSaid]

'Oh do stop playing the racism card. It's tedious.'


I'm not playing any cards. I'm trying to explain that in the same way we don't say 'black people are.. ' we also shouldn't say 'white people are...'

Debate the post, not the race or nationality of the poster.

[LilyMumsnet]

Hi all

Can we please avoid using terminology that may cause offence?

[Wroxie]

@callmebettie I'm going to be generous here because I feel like maybe you really just... don't know.

do you really not know that half caste is not.. shall we say... the preferred nomenclature?

If your cousin refers to herself or himself that way then fair enough (I would be surprised by that unless they are older) but it's still not something that you, as a white person, should be saying because if nothing else people at your work or on Mumsnet will make assumptions that you're a nasty racist at worst and a bit out of touch at best. Is that something you care about? I would care about it.

The "I don't see colour" statement is something white people say and think they are being nice or whatever but it's ignorant. You do see colour. You can't help it. I deal with it every day. For you to ignore it and ignore how it affects my life is impossible. If you are my friend you should care about my colour and be thoughtful about how you speak to me and about me in relation to my race and you should notice how I am treated in the world and try to improve the world in that regard if you can. I have a friend who is Deaf - I don't ignore her Deafness. I make sure she can see my mouth when I talk to her and I help make sure other people around us do the same. I couldn't do that if I "didn't see deafness" and if I treated her the exact same as everyone else, then she would have no idea of what I was saying half the time.

And finally saying that you are scared of how to act around Black people because of BLM - or however you worded it - that's on you. If you're not doing wrong you have nothing to worry about. Maybe don't say "half-caste" and stop saying "I don't see colour" and try to be more thoughtful in general and see how you get on.

[Wroxie]

if Mumsnet HQ delete my post as a mixed race person trying to explain why Half-Caste isn't the right thing to call mixed race people I'm going to the papers, I have screenshots!

(only like 90% joking)

[Meraas]

The "I don't see colour" statement is something white people say and think they are being nice or whatever but it's ignorant. You do see colour. You can't help it. I deal with it every day. For you to ignore it and ignore how it affects my life is impossible.

💯 agree but no doubt Janie will call you racist. 🙄

[Wroxie]

@Meraas

The "I don't see colour" statement is something white people say and think they are being nice or whatever but it's ignorant. You do see colour. You can't help it. I deal with it every day. For you to ignore it and ignore how it affects my life is impossible.

💯 agree but no doubt Janie will call you racist. 🙄

😹 come on Janiee don't hold back I know you have more to say.

[SueSaid]

'The "I don't see colour" statement is something white people say '

It is what some people say. There really is no need for the constant 'white people' allegations. Have we had 'white women's tears' yet? I know we've had gammon. Such lovely unbigoted terminology 🙄.

[Wroxie]

@EchoNan thanks but I know that. I'm "HC" myself. I just thought that Bettie sounded like they might be older and there are a couple of old aunties on my (white) husband's side of the family who actually thought it was OK to say until we set them straight. This was like 20 years ago though so you're right that it does seem highly unlikely that she is that clueless unless she lives in a racist cave somewhere 😹

[HmmmmmmInteresting]

"My auNtIe is BLAcK My cOusIN iS hAlf cAsTe I'm nErVouS tO sAy aNyThiNg BeCaUsE oF bLm"

Cool story bro

[Wroxie]

@HmmmmmmInteresting

"My auNtIe is BLAcK My cOusIN iS hAlf cAsTe I'm nErVouS tO sAy aNyThiNg BeCaUsE oF bLm"

Cool story bro

😂😂😂

[HmmmmmmInteresting]

@JaniieJones

'The "I don't see colour" statement is something white people say '

It is what some people say. There really is no need for the constant 'white people' allegations. Have we had 'white women's tears' yet? I know we've had gammon. Such lovely unbigoted terminology 🙄.

Well, black people don't say it, and tbh I've never heard any other race say it, so it's perfectly valid to say it is a phrase that white people use

[SueSaid]

@Wroxie

Yay she's still standing! Come on JanieeJ, give us some more. I'm collecting them for my book called The Whit and Whisdom of JanieeJones. I'll sign a copy for you.

I can debate your points intelligently all day long. Feel free to resort to mockery if it makes you feel good, shows you're losing the argument tbh.

[HmmmmmmInteresting]

I'd just ignore Janiie now @Wroxie tbh. I don't think you're going to get the intelligent debate you're after

[VladmirsPoutine]

Have we had 'white women's tears' yet?

Nope. This is usually a last resort only to be deployed when really there's no other option.

[StoneofDestiny]

@titchgreen I was really pointing out that women got the vote in other countries before British women

[Wroxie]

@JaniieJones you're the one who didn't have anything to say after you goaded me about being proud of America until I had to explain to you that my only connection to America is as the direct offspring of enslaved people. You had nothing to say after you tried to WTAF me about my (perfectly accurate and dispassionate) description of why the USA didn't need any more imports of enslaved people to continue to use slave labour after 1808. You didn't know what you were getting into, you haven't responded intelligently to anything I've said or that anyone else has said, you never were debating in good faith, and I'll mock you until I get bored of it or you get bored of asking for it.