@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously
Whaam you can't really discuss in detail hundreds of years of history on a Mumsnet post.
I would agree that the political system needs reform. Fptp can be unrepresentative for many people within the UK. Maybe some form of PR would be fairer
And while I do agree with you that the poll tax was awful, I would equally say that Thatcher's govt didn't act in the best interests of working class English people either. Certainly I don't recall her doing much to benefit my working class English parents!
Culloden again is something the English tend to get blamed for, but iirc many Scots fought with the British army. The aftermath was awful, but we are talking about the 1700s - punishments were harsh. Particularly for treason. The Highland clearances were not the sole fault of the English. Wasn't a lot of it to do with agricultural changes and Scottish landlords?
That said, I agree that a union which isn't wanted by ordinary people in either nation, causes more problems than it solves. But the fact remains that Scotland was asked and you cannot keep asking the same question every couple of years until you get a different result. What about the people who don't like the new result and argue for yet another referendum?
You are, yet again, missing both points. The first one being that it is reductionist to reduce everything to class because it doesn't explain everything. Things are more nuanced than that. The second point is that, again, the complex and nuanced history of the relationships (unequal relationships) between the constituent nations have brought about resentment, and that resentment is legitimate. I suggest you read through the previous posts and have a look at the many, many examples given by people on here. And, again, I repeat, to bring about better relations between people in all four nations, it is necessary to have a genuine, open conversation where people's grievances are equally heard. Right now, there is none of that.
Your comment about Culloden totally misses the point. I suggest that you read through the thread again. Of course Scots were involved in Culloden, as Indians were involved in the oppression of other Indians during Indian colonisation, and Africans during the colonisation of African countries. It doesn't detract from what happened and the fall out of that, i.e. the loss of culture, language and way of life etc., that had an impact for generations.
You also miss the point about Thatcher, but that is again because you are reducing everything to class and seem intent on ignoring that countries even exist. Scotland is a nation, you know. It's a country, not a region of England.
Who was talking about the Highland clearances, as it wasn't me? They are not related to anything in this conversation.
Again, with regards to another referendum, you've ignored again the points made about Brexit or about changing opinion. In fact, yes, this is exactly how democracy works. When people change their mind then there can and should be another vote. In this particular case, Brexit is a pretty big game changer - i.e. during the independence referendum, Scots are told to vote against independence to stay in the EU, but two years later are forced out because the bigger nation in the union decides that it wants to leave. That's a pretty damn big change, so if the Scots want another vote, I reckon they should have it. You also say "every couple of years" - it has been seven years since the last referendum and will likely be at least three or four before the next one. A decade is not a "couple of years".
If people don't like the result and argue for a new referendum and the polls say they are a sizeable majority, well, then there would be another referendum.
Finally, @MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously, you can't discuss in detail hundreds of years of history on MN, but you can acknowledge it and avoid reducing all arguments to one or two events in history, as you have done. I really invite you to consider the nuances of all perspectives and not just the one, rigid perspective that you appear to have. Rigid perspectives are also what breed prejudice.