To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

[crinklyfoil]

I’m not new but I have noticed it a lot lately. I do think in general the site seems more hostile lately, perhaps that’s just my perception though.

[tootingbeclido]

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Childcare costs are joint and known before having children so not an excuse to not work.

Education teaches children to aim high and study hard in order to prepare for adulthood, supporting yourself and giving back through taxes.

I don’t subscribe to the old fashioned view that men work and pay for everything and women opt out of all work and financial responsibilities. It’s perfectly possible to work, run a home and parent, millions do it.

I can’t imagine not working and needing someone else to pay for absolutely everything I need. Nor expecting my partner to pay for his own gifts and bear the responsibility for it all alone. I’d not be impressed if he thought it was perfectly ok to opt out of working and leave his costs to me so wouldn’t expect the same in return,

Do you mean posts like this op? where the role of mother is derided and farmed out.

[Alcesalces]

I think the decision to become a SAHM is often made in your late 20s and 30s. The damage it can do to your career and pension probably becomes evident in you 40s. A lot of women choosing to be SAHM aren't even benefitting from the protection of marriage. Most divorces occur in your 40s. Many of the women possibly raising their concerns over being a SAHM are giving advice based on their experience.

[Hardbackwriter]

Yeah, temporary loss, but long term investment into cv, skills, better chsnce of getting a better job later, etc. Many people don't ever consoder these things.

Realistically, though, are most jobs bringing home £1100 a month full-time full of opportunities for progression and CV building?

[ComDummings]

I don’t see that here, I’m a SAHM and don’t care what anyone thinks about it anyway I do get some judgment in real life, I think because we aren’t loaded but doing OK people think we, and SAHMs generally, get loads of tax credits or UC but I don’t get any. That seems to be where any judgment creeps in.

[Hardbackwriter]

I’ve honestly never noticed that. There’s definitely the odd comment about raising own children and nurseries being horrible places but they are usually shouted down.

You'd notice a lot more of them if they applied to you. Just as I suspect I don't notice as many anti-SAHM posts as I would if I were one.

[ChristmasShearwater]

.I do however find the endless threads of women who have made that choice and now want to leave and are asking for benefits advice

Where are they?

[SimonJT]

I’ve seen posters be equallt nasty to stay at home parents and working parents on MN, some people just like being unpleasant.

My cousin is a stay at home parent, if they used childcare it would cost the family around £1,400 per month, they also couldn’t find a childminder willing to start work at 6am. If my cousin gave up work this cost the family budget around £1,200 per month (she earned more than £1,200 after deductions, but this includes significant savings in commuting costs).

They looked at going part time, but neither are able to work fixed shifts so their childcare wouldn’t be any cheaper and they still would have the issue of no childcare starting early enough for them to get to work.

[crinklyfoil]

That’s exactly it really @Hardbackwriter

But also sometimes you do have to weigh up everything. I mean, my own mum could definitely have done with a period as a SAHM as she was trying to do everything, and was so moody as a result!

I’m obviously not saying anyone should be a SAHM! But I can totally understand sometimes it’s just the best option.

[crinklyfoil]

I’m not a SAHM @Hardbackwriter

[DrSbaitso]

@Musication

Where are these threads that say this? I haven't seen them.

There's a thread about a husband who gave his sister half the family savings to pay for IVF and there are some alarming comments about how the OP has no right to any say in finances because she's a SAHM.

Although tbh, I think much of the tone was set when she tried to convince us that a 100k household income wasn't very much for four people. Wrongly, perhaps, but I think it affected how people saw her view of money.

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

@Hardbackwriter

Yeah, temporary loss, but long term investment into cv, skills, better chsnce of getting a better job later, etc. Many people don't ever consoder these things.

Realistically, though, are most jobs bringing home £1100 a month full-time full of opportunities for progression and CV building?

Yes they are. They keep your skills up to date, provide opportunities to move up or into different company and get better positions there, sometimes there is upskilling offered. The fact that you are in lower paid job doesn't mean you will always have to be in that lower paid job or that it's not good for you...

[SilverGlassHare]

I don’t think I’ve ever been horrible to any SAHMs on here, but I do internally roll my eyes a bit when the ones who have all their NT children in full-time schooling try to make out that ‘life admin’ and laundry and cleaning fill the whole time their children are out of the house. Working parents also manage to do all those things AND work. I’d actually find it refreshing to hear a SAHM of school aged kids say, yes it’s lovely, I spend an hour each day tidying/cooking/cleaning then relax the rest of the time.

[Snookie00]

The old jealousy card has been pulled out. It’s like some women can’t understand how other women would want more from life than domestic and childcare duties entirely dependent on their husband or the state to fund them. It’s soooo old fashioned. Some women enjoy their jobs, using their qualifications/ intellect and value being financially independent. We know what SAHMs do as that’s what we do evenings, weekends and holidays. Why can’t they accept that we do not want to do that full time?

[Eyjafjallajokulldottir]

@alrightfella

I've always thought it was jealousy. I feel incredibly lucky that I was able to be a sahm. I only went back to work part time when my youngest dc started secondary school.

However it totally killed my career. But I wouldn't change it for the world as I lived every second but I realise I am lucky to have a supportive dh so I could do that. But I very much just have a job with no career progression these days.

I do also think that having family to do childcare makes a difference to people returning to work. We have never had any family help, all childcare including babysitters has been paid for. This makes a huge difference when making that decision I think.

No dear, not jealousy, more like pity. I would hate to be with a partner who didn't think I was worth anything outside of the home.

See I can be goady too

[MildredPuppy]

Im not a stay at home mum but my partner does earn more than me. I earned more than him by a tiny margin but for us to have 2 children i had surgery on endometriosis, a pregnancy that ended in a difficult miscarriage, then one easy pregnancy and a 9 month mat leave, then a very difficult pregnancy and a 9 month mat leave and a permanent injury from birth which required physio when i went back to work so i needed to have an afternoon off work for another year. During that time my husband got 2 promotions because he didnt carry the reproductive burden. Couldnt even share mat leave in my day. i got given less stategic projects, less prestiogious projects and ones on shorter timescales.

Im sure one easy pregnancy with shared parental leave has less impact but there are so many women who are in my position or get made redundant on mat leave.

[Eyjafjallajokulldottir]

@Snookie00

The old jealousy card has been pulled out. It’s like some women can’t understand how other women would want more from life than domestic and childcare duties entirely dependent on their husband or the state to fund them. It’s soooo old fashioned. Some women enjoy their jobs, using their qualifications/ intellect and value being financially independent. We know what SAHMs do as that’s what we do evenings, weekends and holidays. Why can’t they accept that we do not want to do that full time?

Yes this!

[Fernando072020]

I've seen a lot of anti-sahm posts too. I really don't get the hate either. Surely, a woman should be free to choose whether she works or stays at home? As long as the family can afford it and mum is staying home by choice (and not forced), then I see no problem with it and have always had this attitude.
I have a 1 year old and have decided not to go back to my job in September. I'm finishing my master currently (writing the dissertation) and husband is on 3 months paternity so I can do it. I will then take a break for likely 2 years, but definitely 1, and then pursue my PhD to become a lecturer.
Luckily, in real life, i have lots of support for my choice. The comments on Mumsnet that I read are just sad really, and very closed minded. I'm not lazy (I've worked since I was 16, I've supported myself through my undergraduate degree (parents have zero money) and although my husband has helped through my graduate, I've done most of it myself financially.
Husband also says his money is our money and we have a joint account so now I'm not earning, there is no "asking" for money. We discuss big things before we buy of course but that goes both ways.
I love the fact I get to have the next few years with my son as I didn't get that growing up with my mum and dad, and I really felt their absence.
Nothing wrong with being a sahm, nothing wrong with going back to work. Just wish society would prop people up more in their choices

[Pottedpalm]

I think it’s true there is an element of jealousy, or maybe concern that putting small children into childcare for long hours is not the best thing for them. No doubt someone will find statistics showing that children in long term childcare are not disadvantaged, but there is still a gut feeling that babies and small children are better off at home.
Personally with DTs I would not have wanted to return to teaching, even part time, and it wasn’t necessary for us. Each to their own.

[EL8888]

Like a lot of things it’s ruined by the minority. I remember a old work colleague had a wife who didn’t work and 2 children at primary school (neither with any additional needs). But she didn’t like doing housework so rarely did it. He asked my thoughts so l queried what she did whilst the children were at school and he didn’t know. I was blunt yeah, she’s a lazy cow and needs to step up which l think is fair enough. If someone told me a man didn’t work, was a SAHP and chilled 9.01am to 2.59pm then l would say the same

Amused by the comments about “jealousy”, lots of women have no interest in being SAHM

[crinklyfoil]

There’s also loads about husband wfh where everyone gets really angry at the non working op.

The ivf one was horrible, the op explained one of her dcs had additional needs.

[butwhatcanwedo]

Every family makes its own choice as we are all different.
Most sahps I know (not all women by the way), their husband or wife works in professional services where the expectation is that you’re available virtually 24/7, there are frequent trips to clients including overseas and it would be impossible to find childcare to cover the hours which would be required. The Sahp very much earns their way - yes there might be a few quiet hours during the day but they don’t have any freedom in the evenings or often weekends when the other one is working. These families seem very happy. My husband and I both work in professional services btw and it’s a huge struggle and certainly detrimental to the children at times because of the stress.

[ComDummings]

Also I do think some people think you shouldn’t have a right to money if you’re a SAHM, but again, I don’t see it much on here and only a little in real life. I don’t talk about money IRL but I had a friend make a bitchy comment that I’d need to ask for money from my husband for something, but we have a joint account and everything goes into that and once all bills are paid and savings put aside we spend what we want. It’s very much ‘our money’ as it was before I was a SAHM.

[bibliomania]

alce, I do think the age thing matters and often those counselling caution about being a SAHM are saying what they wish they could say to their younger self. It works 6be interesting to match ages to comments. I'm 47 and old enough to have seen some peers try to get back into the workforce and find it demoralisingly hard.

[EL8888]

@crinklyfoil the OP did come across as super entitled which got people’s backs up to be fair