To loathe organised sport and what it does to children?

[AssemblySquare]

There is a back story to this but it’s long and boring. I’m just sick and tired of sport being held up as this wonderful thing that brings people together, but all I have ever seen and experienced is divisiveness, bullying and meanness. I’m so done with it all, especially at grass roots level and at school where most kids seem to get shouted at by PE teachers and coaches taking out their own frustrations that they weren’t quite good enough to make it.

It depends. My DC2 has this when she played football and was basically bullied in to leaving.
Never had this at the football where she plays now. She does other s sports (kickboxing and swimming) and there is none of that atmosphere there. So I think it just depends.

@Fountainsoftea

I think sometimes, the problem with pe teachers is that they, obviously, were good at sport and probably were on teams all the way through. Idon't think they always get that some kids aren't good at/ don't enjoy sport or don't want to be in teams. Kids in teams tend to have a collective sense of worth and that they are better than others. Ds has a phenomenal vocabulary and impressive grasp of structure and plot when writing. But who gives a shit? He's not part of any teams, so is tolerated by the other lads in his class but also looked down on cos of his lack of football ability.

I'm also not convinced kids who are good at sport work hard in their other subjects. Sometimes it's quite the opposite. Especially those who think they're going to make a career out of it.

Excellent post @Fountainsoftea. I also think some parents don't "get" that some children hate any kind of aport. DD found the set 1 PE kids at her school very cliquey, as were the set 1 PE types in my school 50 years ago. Basically if you were poor at sport you weren't worth talking to.

YABU because there's are coaches and PE teachers who truly inspire and support children through the sports they facilitate

Pity none of them worked at DD’s school. She hated her PE teachers.

I tend to find sporty kids are actually more emotionally resilient and often harder working

Or maybe the harder working more emotionally resilient kids are more sporty? It works both ways. DD was very hard working and has achieved very well academically. She just isn’t sporty, and her lack of enthusiasm was further killed off by the PE teachers at her school.

School PE has been gifting ammunition to bullies for generations, and anyone who blithely assumes it’s harmless is lacking empathy

Sadly, I think this is true in many cases.

Children who are bad at team sports won't be picked for teams. They're constantly the ones being picked last or left sitting on the sidelines. They're not included in matches or games because they're not good enough, so they miss out on friendships and the social aspect of it.

This is true. The more sadistic PE teachers still use this method of team picking. A great way of making someone with low esteem feel even worse about themselves.

Having said all this DD enjoys a game of rounders because she is good at hitting the ball.

That article quoting John Amaechi is exactly right: organised sport is neutral in itself, good if you have good people and values, bad if you don't.

My DS did karate for a while before we moved house. The ethos of the group and the promise they had to make about not using fighting ability for bad reasons were very good. DS can still recite the credo by heart. Also, having a mixed ability class helped to prevent it becoming too much of a hothouse.

But my experience has been that a lot of organised sport is bad at accommodating different ability levels in a positive way, or at all.

I feel that PE teachers are getting a bit of a hard time on this thread. Many of them are dealing with trying to organise lessons with very limited resources and infrastructure, increasing time limitations within the curriculum, and let's face it, quite a few pupils (usually teens) who use sport as an opportunity to muck about and try it on a bit.

It is harder trying to instill discipline in pupils in a sports hall or field than in a classroom, and there are more safety aspects to consider too.

Many of these factors may contribute to an individual PE teacher's level of shoutiness and sometimes teaching sport can be a very thankless task if not supported by the school head.

Also, sorry, but at one of my teen's schools, the girls would make up any excuse to avoid PE lessons given the opportunity, and this was in the context of a fairly well resourced sports department that offered climbing, archery, dance, fencing alongside more traditional sports. There truly was something for everything but the PE teacher had to be a bit strict to ensure that teen girls did get their weekly exercise and didn't bunk off!

It's football I think you're probably referring to. It has the ability to bring out the absolute worst in people..in coaches and parents and ultimately it's the kids who suffer. For some it's just a massive power trip and yes, a way to constantly push their own kid forward.

@CrazyNeighbour you sound like my PE teacher.

You’ve completely missed the point of this thread, again.

It isn’t being shit at sport that was the issue for me (and many others). I was shit at quite a few things at school and been unaffected by it. It was the bullying and belittling that went alongside that.

I don’t blame my PE teacher for “not having a ski piste”. I do blame them for mocking me loudly in front of my classmates, for telling me I was useless, for telling me if I didn’t stay fit and healthy I’d never have babies, and for numerous other similar things.

It’s really no wonder I didn’t want to get on with it, when “it” consisted of two hours of verbal abuse and being made to feel ugly and hopeless.

Slightly off topic but I think Pilates should be mandatory in all schools.

I'm glad you'll never be anywhere near my dcs @crazyneighbour, your inability to empathise with those who don't agree with you is worrying.

The whole issue could be solved simply by offering non-competitive exercise at primary school, rather than destroying what little confidence the non-sporty kids have.
In the end, if a small child comes away from a class openly talking about killing them self, I'd say that constituted a problem with the curriculum, wouldn't you!

[quote TheCrowening]@CrazyNeighbour you sound like my PE teacher.

You’ve completely missed the point of this thread, again.

It isn’t being shit at sport that was the issue for me (and many others). I was shit at quite a few things at school and been unaffected by it. It was the bullying and belittling that went alongside that.

I don’t blame my PE teacher for “not having a ski piste”. I do blame them for mocking me loudly in front of my classmates, for telling me I was useless, for telling me if I didn’t stay fit and healthy I’d never have babies, and for numerous other similar things.

It’s really no wonder I didn’t want to get on with it, when “it” consisted of two hours of verbal abuse and being made to feel ugly and hopeless.[/quote]
It still goes on in some schools. We moved our ds out of a school last year, one of the reasons was the sports coaching. Ds was in the “C” team, I overheard the coach moaning to the kids “why do I have to coach you losers”.

@Rege

Slightly off topic but I think Pilates should be mandatory in all schools.

I agree.

What a nasty post @CrazyNeighbour

YABU - not all sports - or coaches - or parents are the same.
My DS did junior parkrun this morning. No one was unpleasant, some parents shouted encouragement at their children, it wasnt overly competitive.

@Fizbosshoes

YABU - not all sports - or coaches - or parents are the same. My DS did junior parkrun this morning. No one was unpleasant, some parents shouted encouragement at their children, it wasnt overly competitive.

Parkrun has been like that since the beginning, both the adult and child events. It’s a shining example of how inclusive sport and exercise can be if inclusion is made the priority. Having been there close to the beginning (when it was still the Bushy Park Time Trial, there were no barcodes and runners names were kept on a paper list), it makes me so happy to see how much it has grown.

@Rege

Slightly off topic but I think Pilates should be mandatory in all schools.

Yes, I think I’d have done well at this, or Zumba, aerobics or any kind of relaxed dance type activity. I remember doing a half term of gymnastics including dance and ribbon/floor activity and I liked it so much I asked my mum to buy me a ribbon which I practised with at home. Then it was back to the usual athletics/netball/rounders and being shouted at.

I've not read the full thread but we've had bad experiences with football and good experiences with athletics.

I think ds had an ok experience with school sport because he wasn't bad at it.

I had the usual being picked last for teams and being moaned at by PE teachers because I didn't already know what I didn't know. I think PE teachers rely too much on kids doing sport outside school and learning techniques etc. A pp said PE teachers get a hard time - well I think some of them deserve it, as they only seem to see lessons as crowd control, don't actually "teach" and don't like the kids who don't have natural talent (ditto art and music).

Junior parkrun is a wonderful thing. Actually parkrun in general is a wonderful thing, but junior parkrun is obviously aimed at kids and is as inclusive as it gets.

From my experience with DS it depends on the sport. Football is the only one I've heard parents swear at their own children and children on either team and at the referee. That just wouldn't be tolerated at cricket or hockey.

They either want someone else to be picked last/finish last or for there to be no picking/no teams sports. You cannot say you want there to be team sports but it can’t be that someone is picked last/has to be on the bench/doesn’t make the squad. They go hand in hand

not being picked for a school team is one thing. If you are crap at sport you generally realistic enough to know you won't be.

What I don't expect is for teachers to facilitate bullying by allowing those good at sport to choose their team members in lessons. It doesn't a lot of thought to come with less nasty system, like simply saying everyone is A or B and then saying all the As are in one team and all the Bs in another. And then putting anyone who moans about "I don't want crappy Igel in my team" in detention.

@EwwSprouts

From my experience with DS it depends on the sport. Football is the only one I've heard parents swear at their own children and children on either team and at the referee. That just wouldn't be tolerated at cricket or hockey.

As I mentioned in my post above, we've had bad experiences with football.

It wouldn't be tolerated in athletics either, although you get the odd entitled yummy mummy (doesn't tend to be the dads) who argues with officials. I would disqualify their child but they don't deserve to be punished for their stupid parents.

Glad others agree. I think it should start from reception when kids bodies are still very supple and carry on till they are 18. Girls in particular, Will benefit tremendously from these strengthening exercises and would more than have prepared their bodies well for the traumas of pregnancy and beyond.

Long term physical trauma during labour to the birth canal, shorter labour and less interventions, incontinence, hip problems, core strengthening, back strengthening and just general overall fitness.

I would love to see statistics for the number of surgeries or other treatments on women for problems related to child birth to form a basis to argue the cost benefits to the NHS by introducing Pilates mandatorily to schools and something similar for men e.g stats on back problems.

On OPs original question, I’d like to see more sports in schools but within a different framework. No mandatory team stuff but there should be something for everybody. No shaming but lots of encouragement. I think there should be an element of competition in sport as it’s a strong motivator but the nastiness usually led by the coaches needs to stop.

@TheCrowening I agree. It doesn’t ah e to netbal, football etc. Things like aerobics, Zumba all are excellent!

Its funny how adult sport groups are generally welcoming and emphasise how everyone is accepted regardless of level, and how kid sport can be toxic.

I don't have kids, but I do remember PE at school being horrendous, and then I played tennis, the teacher was dismissive and rude with us. Horse-riding was fun but likewise, the teacher was quite snappy at us. The same teacher also had adult lessons, and she never raised her voice with them.

As an adult, I took some golf lessons, went to a kung fu class, did pottery, art, and what not, everyone was nice friendly and supportive of my (poor) abilities.

@FastFood

Its funny how adult sport groups are generally welcoming and emphasise how everyone is accepted regardless of level, and how kid sport can be toxic.

I don't have kids, but I do remember PE at school being horrendous, and then I played tennis, the teacher was dismissive and rude with us. Horse-riding was fun but likewise, the teacher was quite snappy at us. The same teacher also had adult lessons, and she never raised her voice with them.

As an adult, I took some golf lessons, went to a kung fu class, did pottery, art, and what not, everyone was nice friendly and supportive of my (poor) abilities.

Adults are (usually) more mature for a start. Teachers/coaching teaching adults are usually reliant on people wanting to be there, so they have to make more effort - a crap teacher/coach of adults will soon lose all their class! School teachers have a captive audience and don't care whether their pupils are enjoying it or not. Teenagers are generally immature and often turn to bullying to cover up their own insecurities. It's a travesty that school sports teachers don't stamp on that, and actually encourage it by their own actions of shouting/complaining etc at the weakest in the group.

I also agree about golf. I took lessons with trepidation and was pretty crap in them, but I persevered, did extra lessons, went on the driving range a lot etc. It took my instructor A LOT of work/encouragement to get me out on the golf course. Even out on my own, all my school sports insecurities came back and I was frightened of making a fool of myself, holding other people up behind me, etc. In the end, it was absolutely fine. I did hold people up, but they were fine about it and I let them through at an appropriate place. One group asked me to join them which I couldn't believe as I was conditioned to being not wanted in sports by my awful, bullying class mates at school. They were really supportive and although I knew I was holding them back, they were fine about it and asked me to join them for another round a few days later.