To loathe organised sport and what it does to children?

[AssemblySquare]

There is a back story to this but it’s long and boring. I’m just sick and tired of sport being held up as this wonderful thing that brings people together, but all I have ever seen and experienced is divisiveness, bullying and meanness. I’m so done with it all, especially at grass roots level and at school where most kids seem to get shouted at by PE teachers and coaches taking out their own frustrations that they weren’t quite good enough to make it.

@melj1213

Unfortunately if you are not naturally gifted at sport, being yelled at is common. I hate sport because I was bullied by my pe teachers, it's not confined to the past either because my eldest dc experienced the same, and yes it was reported to the principals office but I was being told she wasn't trying hard enough, she was, she has dyspraxia! I withdrew her from normal pe at 14 to an alternative provision her new school had which was Zumba, yoga and non competitive running, gym etc.

Pe is decisive, if you are good at it you can't see what us unsporty types are complaining about because you are not the butt of the pe teachers jokes

@Fountainsoftea

I agree with your points, this is our experience too.

People here are citing the obesity crisis - school sports are much to blame because they put people off sport, also sport and exercise overlap but aren't the same. Non competitive sports/exercise should be an option for all children including primary with the emphasis on all round health not who is the fastest etc. Yes have team sports but not compulsory. I didn't do exercise from 14-43 thanks to my pe teacher

@Oblomov21

Most people aren't brilliant at anything. Does it really matter if you are crap at sports, aren't the next grand chess champion, or can't draw for toffee?

No!

Yeah, but I think the point is that it does matter if kids learn they don't like being active, as they associate being active with school sport (which they were crap at).

And I don't like forced competition. No one would make kids who are crap at maths sit on the school maths team. Yet kids get forced to enter sports competitions at school all the time.

@RosesAndHellebores

I could have written your post, I have a dd whose plays multiple sports as an adult and even internationally for her main sport, other dd is gifted musician but that made her weird at school, she's semi professional now (covid got in the way a bit)

Our head constantly tells us that the highest achievers academically correlate to those with significant extracurricular activities, whether sport, music or whatever.

As much as I love sport, I had acute arthritis as a child which led to restricted mobility. I knew I would come last in sports day every year by some margin (excluding one girl whose mum let her take a tactical sickie on sports day). Might be tough love but my mum still made me do it (she once told me that another parent said that they loved the fact that I was still smiling as I came last).

Resilience is a good quality,it's fine to come last or "fail". I was fortunate in getting good grades which helped my feeling of self worth but competing at sport with a significant disadvantage didn't scar me for life. It helped me understand how kids who struggle in lessons feel and have a bit more empathy for them.

@kin432

In terms of self esteem suffering if your child isn't selected for a team, it's not necessarily a bad thing being dropped. My older son was dropped from the rugby A team as his tackling wasn't good enough. He played in the Bs, worked hard to improve this area and ended up being the only player from the As to make it into the As at secondary school.

This term he's been dropped from the school first team at one sport. He's been resilient enough to understand that other players were performing better than him and that's life. It hasn't led to a crisis of confidence but he is thinking about focusing on his other two sports next year and freeing up that season for his A level revision.

But presumably, bullying etc isn't part of your son's experience. He's basically just moved between two teams of pretty good players, which is normal.

The bullying/intimidation etc is more a problem for the kids who can't play at all or play badly, so would never get a sniff near the top couple of teams.

Completely different scenario.

@Heathofhares

The OPs experience might not be universal, but it certainly was mine. The effects of bullying PE teachers turned me off sport ( and exercise) complete as a child. It was only when I discovered individual sport away from school that I reversed this.

I could say it was just my experience, however I was shocked when I ended up supporting a school sports day recently to be on the receiving end from just the same, esteem destroying, sarcastic comments from the PE staff as I got as a child! I am 45 and was there in a professional capacity FFS. Made me sad that nothing has really changed

Did you complain to the school

It isn't a lack of sport and activity feeding the obesity crisis, it's too much high fat, high sugar processed food. The equation is something like 70% of what goes in and 30% of output vi's a vi's weight gain.

Despite being unsporty I was reed thin as a child and in my 20s; as is dd. We both walk/ed a lot. Whilst I am overweight (a little bit nowadays) it has far more to do with a love of wine and fine food than lack of exercise.

Organised, team and competitive are not synonyms.

Most people do benefit from some degree of organised sport/ activity, even if it's turning up to a Zumba class.

Competition varies between sports and individual organisations.

Team sports are more niche and less accessible to those with less talent or experience. They can be very rewarding to those that suit that style. Developing a "team" mentality in Olympic sports was a major tool in improving Britain's performance in the 2012 Olympics, and is doing wonders for the England Mens Football team (rather than being an all-star mismatch)

We've been at parkruns this weekend. There is the social familiarity without team pressure. You can make it as competitive as you like. My 8yo set himself a goal of being in the top 20. Meanwhile my 10 yo has gone for a steady 2k walk.

The traditional team sports, and small world competition made PE miserable to me. PE teachers who couldn't believe for years that I was genuinely that inept. Left last for picking teams. Substitute or crappiest positions. Taunted by staff and pupils.
PE is a difficult one because it's a closed environment and limited logistics, but it can be done better and be made more flexible. In y11, we had more choices. Some were closed, netball or hockey, but it was better to pick hockey because it was less awful than netball. We got chance to use the new fitness studio. Focusing on personal development and progress is better than team performance.

While DS1 will never love football or have great aptitude for it, by doing other activities like parkrun, swimming and martial arts, he has the confidence of being fit, knowing that he's good at other sports and maximising his sports skills (dyspraxia) and that will make the school sport easier to tolerate.

We've swerved very competitive sports and settings because it doesn't suit us. DS2 has joined football now as he socially needed it and has the knack and joined a pleasant little club run by someone I already know. In the past few months, it's done wonders for healing the social damage of lockdowns and helped him connect with people again. He's joined because it's what he needs now rather than being sucked into the culture at a very young age.

The bullying/intimidation etc is more a problem for the kids who can't play at all or play badly, so would never get a sniff near the top couple of teams.

The only time I've seen this is over break-time football at primary school. There was one ball provided by school and a few of the kids excluded the less able kids from playing (one was told he could be a pretend camera man from the side...ouch). Taking another ball didn't solve it as the boys wanted to play in the main game.

There isn't bullying of the less sporty kids playing in the lower teams at our school or clubs. No doubt there's bullying sadly, but not over sport. As my kids have got older, they've really enjoyed helping their friends improve or playing with the younger kids (as the older players helped them to develop).

I do wonder how many sporty kids end up sporty adults. I was not a sporty kid, but have always been slim. I eat well and have gone to the gym since my mid 20s. I like the camaraderie of classes. I'm often surprised when larger people tell me how sporty they were in school- especially when mn is convinced that sporty children make sporty adults. It might lead to blokes who kick a ball around at the weekend, but not sure it does for women.

Depends on sport. Mine do bmx racing. Very few pushy parents

YANBU Team sports especially are no good if like me the other kids view you as "that fucking s*" because you aren't very good.
I didn't know I even liked exercise and sport until I found things like swimming and skiing where I didn't have to be in a team.

It doesn't teach team building when no-one wants you in their team and you are shit at the sport.

@gogohm

People here are citing the obesity crisis - school sports are much to blame because they put people off sport, also sport and exercise overlap but aren't the same. Non competitive sports/exercise should be an option for all children including primary with the emphasis on all round health not who is the fastest etc. Yes have team sports but not compulsory. I didn't do exercise from 14-43 thanks to my pe teacher

I fully agree. The way schools "teach" sports is part of the obesity problem, not the solution!

I wasn't particularly sporty but always did OK at primary school, would play footie with a huge group of kids in the school field in evenings/weekends, or go cycling with a random group of local kids, or play cricket etc., just generally hanging around with other local kids.

I got it all knocked out of me virtually from the first "games" lesson at secondary school. The ridicule, name calling, bullying etc., really knocked me. It wasn't not being good at the sports, it was the awful teachers who'd basically laugh at you for not knowing the rules of netball, or hockey or whatever. Then you had the wait of shame as your class mates picked their teams. Then you'd get abused when you made a mistake in the game etc. The whole experience was toxic.

That just stopped my "active" life in it's tracks. I stopped "playing out" with the local kids, because some of them were my bullies from secondary school, and they spread their bile to local kids from different schools/age groups. Bad enough being a laughing stock in your school class, but locally as well is a step too far! So I ended up getting more and more reclusive and withdrawn.

It wasn't until my mid 20s that I started doing "active" things again, starting with cycling and walking, but then I got confidence to do "team" things, I joined our village badminton club, tennis club, etc. The difference was amazing, The others were actually helpful and supportive, no more wait of shame, no more ridicule, etc.

I'm now in my 50's and have never been fitter. I've lost all the weight I put on in my teens, I've even started to have more confidence. All too late though, as most of my working life was overshadowed by lack of confidence, poor body image, difficulty trusting people, difficulty working in teams, etc. All can be traced back to school games lessons.

It doesn't teach team building when no-one wants you in their team and you are shit at the sport

Abso-fucking-lutely this!

@DynamoKev It doesn't teach team building when no-one wants you in their team and you are shit at the sport.

Nail on the head. That's what all the sports enthusiasts don't understand!

Yanbu. Adults in particular are the worst I find. It's amazing they managed to have children, considering how childish they are themselves.

Should see some of the nasty things adults say about each other AND children in horse riding. Absolutely disgraceful things said about other competitors, parents screaming at coaches, shouting at volunteers at shows, all because their precious little brat didn't win or had to go first in a jumping class.

Most are great, helpful people, but there are actually a lot of people who are fucking horrible. Especially on social media, although I've witnessed bitchiness at competitions too.

CrazyNeighbour
In going to try telling my bottom set that in September: you're not as good at English as the others, because you're not trying hard enough. It's just your character flaw.

The 'team' lots of us are talking about isn't a proper team; it's pe teachers saying:"right, A and B, pick two teams." All their mates get picked (including the ones who are shit at sports). The odd bods stand, increasing awkward, as everyone else gets picked and A and B start arguing over has to have the left overs. Some of us didn't even get a chance to be good at sport...in school.

And 'practising'. In the UK.

@CrazyNeighbour You're missing the point. It's isn't not being good at sport that's the problem. It's the way you get ridiculed/abused/bullied because you're not good at it. Most kids can handle not being picked for the school team, just as they can handle not being good at other school subjects, not winning an audition for the school play, not being good enough for the school choir or orchestra. The huge difference with sport is the way that the other pupils (and sadly some teachers) treat you because you've let them down in a competitive school sports game. No one ridicules a pupil for not getting a leading part in a school play, but you're "team-mates" can make your life a living hell if you let the team down! Can't you see the difference???

@CrazyNeighbour Nothing will toughen you up like sport: if you cannot cope with the fastest runner being the winner when it’s not you, then actually that’s a character flaw in you that you should be addressing not trying to prevent other people from experiencing winning.

Wow, this thread has gone way over your head hasn't it? To repeat what lots of others have said. Kids aren't struggling with the "not winning", they're struggling because people around them are ridiculing them for them not being good at sports, and somehow that's acceptable.

The problem with school PE is that it is far too focused on the traditional team games. My DS wasn't interested in these and therefore the PE teachers had zero interest in him or getting to know him. His school report stated that he needed to take more of an interest in physical activities to make any sort of progress in the subject. They just didn't know he walked miles every weekend in preparation for his Duke of Edinburgh or that he was part of a youth cycling group and climbing group.