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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Excusing bad behaviour because the child ‘gifted and talented’ and bored

108 replies

WildWestWanda · 24/07/2021 15:53

My sister has a ds who she believes to be ‘gifted and talented’

His behaviour has never been great but he is now 9yo and it is getting worse.

Just before the start of the summer holiday my ds was yet again called into school. This time he has kicked a teacher! Apparently the class were having a maths lesson and he kept getting up and running around the classroom. He was repeatedly asked to sit down and eventually lashed out and kicked the teacher!

My ds believes it was because the work wasn’t challenging him and he was bored! Instead of any kind of punishment she has sympathised with him!

It’s getting to the point where I am losing all respect for my sister! She is now upset with me because when she told me about the latest school incident I refused to accept his behaviour was ok. She isn’t doing him any favours at all. He is losing friends at school because of the way he behaves.

OP posts:
Gregwiggle · 24/07/2021 19:07

I think you and your sister are wrong about the cause of the kicking. It doesn't sound like standard bad behaviour or being bored to me.

pollylocketpickedapocket · 24/07/2021 19:23

@Lemonmelonsun

It doesn't sound like anything to do with being gifted or bored but perhaps having un diagnosed sen??
Or just being a little twat?
1forAll74 · 24/07/2021 19:50

Does this perfect child, get nothing like any proper discipline at home. You can't go around kicking teachers like this. A child being bored,is a rubbish thing to say, he is at school,and supposed to be learning lots of things. It is the parent/parents responsibility to tell the child how he has to behave in any given situation.

Booboosweet · 24/07/2021 20:01

It sounds like he's a little shit who just needs some proper discipline at home.

kgov1 · 24/07/2021 20:13

My niece went to primary school with a boy like that. He was clever but no Einstein and his mother constantly justified his bad behaviour as being because he was bored and not challenged.

Last thing I heard he got expelled at 16 for stabbing someone. Your sister needs to stop making excuses and start disciplining her child.

hettie · 24/07/2021 20:21

Hmme- well you could suggest that she gets him assessed by an educational psychologist? You could appeal to her ego and her sense that he is gifted as she could then clarify just how 'gifted' he is and the ed psych would suggest some strategies.
For reference, it is generally thought that gifted kids (or adults) will be in the 98th to 99th centile in a Wechsler intelligence test score, so the tope 1-2% of scores (for their age). Thing is a decent ed psych will also pick up on other issues too- dyslexia, possible adhd/attentional issues and will (in the write up of the report) comment on attitude and behaviour (if an issue). So it might also help her recognise if the behaviour is appropraite for age. I'd encourage this if I were you (but it will cost)....

NeverDropYourMooncup · 24/07/2021 20:22

I was supposedly G&T and was bored as hell.

NEVER did I feel a need to kick a teacher (or anybody else) in the shins, though. My misbehaviour was far more intellectually stimulating - like reprogramming the computer to say rude words, creating cartoon like chain reactions , pointing out spelling errors made by teachers, ploughing through the work and the next month's work where it was textbook based so I could say 'done it already' when they tried to give me extension activities, and sitting at the back of the class drawing pictures of animals.

I was a 100% pain in the arse when I was bored, which was most of the time, but it was never violence, ever; to me, resorting to violence or getting myself into proper trouble rather than being an annoying little smartass was a marker of being the least intelligent person and I was so secure in my 'smartness' (God, I was such a mini dickhead), I never wanted to behave like my mother whose only answer to the many things she couldn't understand was to attack it a thick as mince thug.

The actually intelligent kids would be looking at him in disgust.

FTEngineerM · 24/07/2021 20:28

Hmm I’m not sure being super smart allows you to do what ever the fuck you want.

There aren’t streams of PhD students going round booting people in the head because they’re bored.

mbosnz · 24/07/2021 20:33

What is your sister doing to extend her son? My daughters' school was absolutely pants. I enrolled one in One Day School (don't recommend it) for extension, and because apparently one of the requirements for the Math Extension Club was a Penis, I got them both into Kip McGrath for Math. Never, ever, EVER, were they given any sort of an impression that because they were slightly smarter than the average bear, this gave them free rein to be abusive to their teachers, their peers, or, for that matter, their siblings, or indeed anyone else.

If she thinks he's bored, and not being extended, it's up to her to sort this out, if the school isn't up to it. Regardless of why he's behaving in such a manner, it's unacceptable, and she either needs to work with the school, or without it, to find out why, and help sort the issue out. Anything else is failing her son.

Iusedtoliveinsanfrancisco · 24/07/2021 20:37

Some children use the words ‘boring’ and ‘too easy’ as code for actually too challenging/ difficult but too embarrassed to say so.

PinniGig · 24/07/2021 20:38

My then 8 or 9yr old nephew was a right little shit and acted out for his parents something shocking and they let him, gave in to all his wants and tantrums and both of them reckoned they couldn't get him to leave a park or just behave in a supermarket without bribing him.

They made constant excuses for him and when they split up neither wanted to be the "bad guy" so they each let his behaviour worsen and put everything down to either him being unsettled and affected by their split and / or his high intelligence they reckoned accounted for and excused the behaviour. They would argue the toss, try to reason with and spend a good half an hour trying to get him changed into his PJ's or put on his shoes and I could see him wearing himself out in the effort to cause more aggro almost wandering around looking at shit and thinking what he could do he knows he isn't supposed to do and will get them to tell him off.

When he had to come stay with us for a weekend - purely because the parents had little choice or option to let him stay elsewhere (they seemed to think we'd beat him with sticks or set fire to him I'm sure) he rocked up with every gadget, game and a PE pump bag filled with sweets, DVD's and shit they said he would need to have or he'd get upset. I kid you not he had an iPhone, tablet, laptop and not content with all that his Dad left HIS bastarding tablet as well.

Waved them off, told them not to worry and he'd be fine and all the crap he brought was left in the hallway, I got him changed into his scruffy clothes and wellies and off we went to muck out horses, fill haynets, cart buckets and wheelbarrows back and forth. I showed him how to do certain little jobs, left him in charge and sent him off tootling which he loved, took real pride in doing and the more he did and was asked to do, the more interested he was and started asking more about.

He was up first thing in the morning with me to do the first early feed and sort at the yard then we stopped off at Tesco to pick up some bits and bobs and on my life he wasn't a bit of bother. Absolutely good as gold. We didn't fall out once nor did he need bribing or pestering.

When we got home I told him to pick out a DVD or game cos he'd been a really good lad and helped me out with the horses and dogs so earned a rest, a few treats and could kick back and watch TV and he crashed and was flat out less than half an hour later.

First thing his parents did when they collected him was unleash the baby voiced mard-arsed molly coddling and speaking to him like he was dumb as a bucket of rocks. They were horrified that the he'd been busy with us all weekend and not touched most of what was left with him and almost to make up for them having not been there and him forced to endure a weekend outside in the fresh air doing things and learning stuff, they produced a new video game and he started to act up and throw a fit cos he wanted sweets to go with it. Not the ones he had already he wanted a new bag of sweets to match his new game.

All I did was just turn on my shouty face and go “Erm.. what's all this in aid of and why are you starting to act like a baby?? Pack it in or I'll keep the video game and the sweets do you hear?”

He nodded and snapped out of it but not long after his parents were falling over themselves to tell everyone he had some issues, was being assessed for ADD / ADHD / ASD and they used that for everything because it was an ideal excuse.

His teachers don't have any problems during school lessons, his Grandma never has any issues nor do we when he's at ours and that in itself says an awful lot. He's such a smart kid but still a little bastard and has very little left in the window of opportunity to find him a suitable outlet and channel for all his smarts and energy.

"He can't help it's - "

Get fucked he can't help it. How come he helps it when he's at ours and manages to consistently and continously help it for days?

Pricks Angry

Thingsthatgo · 24/07/2021 20:43

The actually intelligent kids would be looking at him in disgust.
This is such rubbish... do you really believe that it is not possible to be intelligent and also have behavioural issues?

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 24/07/2021 21:03

Didn't Dr Crippen's mother think he was 'gifted' or am I thinking of someone else?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 24/07/2021 21:06

@Thingsthatgo

The actually intelligent kids would be looking at him in disgust. This is such rubbish... do you really believe that it is not possible to be intelligent and also have behavioural issues?
No, I was a fucking pain in the arse. Autism and ADHD had something to do with that.

Still wasn't violent.

Thingsthatgo · 24/07/2021 22:11

*Thingsthatgo
The actually intelligent kids would be looking at him in disgust.
This is such rubbish... do you really believe that it is not possible to be intelligent and also have behavioural issues?
No, I was a fucking pain in the arse. Autism and ADHD had something to do with that.

Still wasn't violent.*

And so a child with ASD or ADHD who is violent? That’s their own fault is it? Or maybe their parents’ fault?

HelgaDownUnder · 24/07/2021 22:12

@Thingsthatgo

The actually intelligent kids would be looking at him in disgust. This is such rubbish... do you really believe that it is not possible to be intelligent and also have behavioural issues?
We'll, there are all types. But it's more common for very bright kids to a engage in certain behaviour, like arguing/'fact checking', back-chat, planning light mutiny or daydreaming out the window. They can figure out how to fluster teachers in ways that are hard to deal with. Misapplied brainpower is a devastating weapon, no kicking required.
Coronawireless · 24/07/2021 22:24

The truly intelligent don’t disrupt classrooms or be rude to teachers because they understand that everyone has a job to do at their own pace. (Unless they’re both intelligent and unpleasant).
The exception may be as others have said undiagnosed SEN - but if severe enough to cause kicking then surely by now it should have manifested in other ways? unless the parents are extremely unobservant?

billy1966 · 25/07/2021 07:54

@HelgaDownUnder

This is my friends experience of her son who is in his 20's now on a scholarship in a hugely prestigious university.

He walked at 9 months and had a vocabulary that was frankly extraordinary.
My children all spoke late so I had never seen the like of this. Coherently, cogently arguing his point at 2 years!

He never bothered really with toys as he found them silly and preferred playing in his garden.

Her was a voracious reader and when he went to school he had issues as described, basically pedantry on every subject.

It was tiresome for the teachers and some were better than others at coping with him.

They all described him as extraordinarily bright.
Secondary school was a bit easier.

He was a little awkward socially but nothing really that was hugely problematic.
Fortunately he loves water sports and is very talented there too.

He is very happy at his university and is excelling.

He has had several large Pharmaceutical companies offering him various work/study programmes as he is considered a future bright light.

cariadlet · 25/07/2021 08:01

@Morph2lcfc

ˋHis behaviour isn’t like this when he’s with his dad, my sister and her ds’s dad are divorced´

This is typical asd behaviour especially if he feels more secure with his mum, he can mask a situation and then explode when he’s with person he feels safest with. Google the coke bottle effect. A lot of asd kids mask at school but it doesn’t sound like he is, mine never did

Alternatively, he could behave with his dad because his dad has higher expectations, sets clear boundaries and there are consequences for poor behaviour.

SionnachRua · 25/07/2021 10:41

Thing is a decent ed psych will also pick up on other issues too- dyslexia, possible adhd/attentional issues and will (in the write up of the report) comment on attitude and behaviour (if an issue).

Absolutely. We did this a few years ago, had a kid who was so obviously autistic it was ridiculous (except to the mum who didn't want to know). We got the mum to take him to an Ed psych under the guise of having 'high intelligence tested for G&T'. Worked a treat, the report came back saying what we all suspected.

SnowdaySewday · 25/07/2021 23:35

Did the school not give him a fixed-term exclusion?

cierzo · 29/07/2021 13:22

@Itsbeen84yearss

What makes her think he’s gifted and talented? I’ve never come across g&t kids with such behavioural problems in 15 years of teaching
G&T children do not come like in the movies, if you in 15 years haven't come across one child in the HLP/Gifted/More able spectrum without issues you may have been lucky. Children with High learning capabilities/IQ can also be dual exceptional, they may be very advance academically but behind emotionally, what is called asynchronous development, they can also have sensory processing issues, or other "problems".

In this case, the school SENCO should be involved, also many kids G&T are not being helped by schools, the staff do not have the experience or idea of how to help them, and suffer from bullying by peers, they are expected to be perfect, do not get into trouble and literally being saints, and these children need a lot of extra help.

My advise will be to speak with specialist, have proper assessments and look into the triggers that cause this child to behave in that way. Maybe look for an Educational Psychologist, Occupational Therapist, and charities like Potential Plus.

Good luck, it's not easy to be the parent of a child like this.

NotSoLongGoodbye · 29/07/2021 13:30

Hi OP, obviously the behaviour needs to be tackled but frankly my experience of the primary education system is that all the effort is given to those children who struggle with basic skills / behavioural issues as part of closing the attainment gap and the bright kids are just left to put up and shut up.

My DS is good at maths - he's not a genius but he 'gets' maths. I have spoken to numerous teachers about the need to challenge and stretch him and absolutely nothing has changed. We've been fobbed off so many times and it has been implied that we are being pushy parents I've sort of given up. Consequence is son is bored at school but I would come down on him like a tonne of bricks if he started kicking / hitting as a result.

cierzo · 29/07/2021 13:37

@NotSoLongGoodbye

Hi OP, obviously the behaviour needs to be tackled but frankly my experience of the primary education system is that all the effort is given to those children who struggle with basic skills / behavioural issues as part of closing the attainment gap and the bright kids are just left to put up and shut up.

My DS is good at maths - he's not a genius but he 'gets' maths. I have spoken to numerous teachers about the need to challenge and stretch him and absolutely nothing has changed. We've been fobbed off so many times and it has been implied that we are being pushy parents I've sort of given up. Consequence is son is bored at school but I would come down on him like a tonne of bricks if he started kicking / hitting as a result.

Exactly they do not want or understand these children, they are literally trying to get the ones to struggle to the middle and ignore the more able, it used to be a program for G&T that got cut off by the Gov.

the other thing we found if that some times when you ask them to give them a bit more challenging work, they just download more Twikl pdfs of the same thing and give them to complete, totally boring being repeating over and over again something that they can obviously do.

Pazuzu · 29/07/2021 13:38

Just what behaviour needs to happen (on any topic) before some people don't automatically vote YABU.

Boredom doesn't mean you get away with whatever. The kid sounds a right spoiled brat. DS1 is a smart kid and he's bored a lot but he knows that if he kicked a teacher his life would be made particularly interesting in a very unpleasant way.