NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

@janj2301

Problem with organisations like NHS and local authority is you get paid the same for doing a certian job whether you live in London or the north. My daughter and son in law get London wages (less £2000 london allowance) and live in Nottingham where they have a brand new 4 bed town house with a mortgage less than my rent on a council 3 bed terrace. I know other costs would be the same but with the disparity in housing costs % payrises across the board/country like this are unfair

It is not that NHS get London wages everywhere, it is that the London allowance is added to the basic wage if you live there (and is pretty paltry and inadequate in itself).

@Ozanj

Most nurses / NHS clinical staff get overtime, training allowances, shift allowances etc on top of their salaries & are allowed to do private work on top of their NHS work. That’s why salaries are lower and of course people on this thread seem to have forgotton all this.

I have a lot of nurses and paramedics in my family and all of them are raking in 50K a year minimum (even the ones not in London) on a shift that is not much longer than mine per day. But the government has decided NHS staff > Nursery Practitioners even though my job is just as important but in a different way (without me most nurses wouldn’t be able to work).

So yes I do think NHS staff are lucky. Without people like me people like you wouldn’t be able to work, but despite having a degree my salary is peanuts, I don’t get pay rises, and I’m lucky to get paid overtime. I love my job, don’t get me wrong, but we work just as hard as NHS staff.

Most nurses in your family are "raking in 50K a year minimum"? That's either nonsense or they are at top management level which very few nurses are. The salaries are there for all to see - Google 'Agenda for Change'. I'm top of my banding (band 5 which the majority of registered nurses working on a ward are) and I'm on 30k a year.

@fromdownwest

Sometimes better the devil you know.

Look at what Welsh Labour has done to the Welsh NHS. Makes Boris look like a world leader in efficiency!

Thought if you take in to account wales gets less funding - adjusted for an older pop. - their performance is similar?

Certainly the Welsh seem to think their FM has handled Cv beter than England.

@YellowBellyCat after having my baby during the pandemic I couldn't believe how understaffed and rushed the midwives on the postnatal ward were. They obviously had to do all the extra little bits that partners would've been doing (but visiting hours were reduced to 2 hrs) like getting water or passing the patient something if they couldn't get out of bed. It was bordering quite dangerous. It usually took a good 10mins for a call to be answered. I left early and anxious- not a nice experience at all- I don't blame the midwives they had too many people to look after- all of which had just had babies so we're pretty high maintenance!

Sorry but I think it's a fantasy to expect anything more.can you imagine the full cost if it was any higher? How exactly is that meant to be paid for?

Unless you want to pay more tax? We are on the middle of an economic crisis 🤷

Personally I think the 3% rise is really the best that can be afforded in the circumstances. Lockdowns don’t pay for themselves and there simply isn’t the money to fund a 15% rise like the unions want.

I am pleased though that the money that would have gone on a rise for teachers will go to doctors and nurses instead.

Many teachers did very little during the first lockdown last year and I suspect schools would have shut last February and never reopened yet if it was up to the unions!

@Angelcupcake

My message was in response to pp working as a nursery practitioner

Yes that nursery worker was @Ozanj Your post is excellent. It details the complexities of what we do under the extreme pressures we are under at the moment.

In addition, NHS workers get so many concessions, that us mere mortals don't get.

Do they? What are they?

It's not particularly unusual to be band 5 after 8 years. I could go for a band 6, I have the experience, skills and qualifications, and I probably will in a couple of years when DS is a bit more self sufficient. But in the mean time I would like to be paid properly for the band 5 job that I do. If I move up to a 6, then I will have yet more responsibility and I would want to be paid properly for that job too. As it is, band 5 is paid poorly and band 6 is paid poorly for the knowledge, skills, experience and qualifications needed for the role.

[quote LagunaBubbles]**@ChainJane

3% seems pretty generous to me considering many people in the private sector are getting nothing at all

And that is NHS staff fault is it?

The BBC report I read said the average nurse would be getting an extra thousand a month because of it

I suggest you practice your reading skills then, because with all respect you are talking crap. But why let the true facts get in the way of having a pop at NHS staff it will be lucky to be £1000 a year,....a month oh ffs[/quote]
Also needs to work on maths skills. If a nurse is on £30,000 then a 3% increase is £900. Not that hard to figure out.

What you read sounds accurate...for the YEAR.

@GreenLakes

Personally I think the 3% rise is really the best that can be afforded in the circumstances. Lockdowns don’t pay for themselves and there simply isn’t the money to fund a 15% rise like the unions want.

I am pleased though that the money that would have gone on a rise for teachers will go to doctors and nurses instead.

Many teachers did very little during the first lockdown last year and I suspect schools would have shut last February and never reopened yet if it was up to the unions!

How does a NHS post turn into teacher bashing. I taught live to timetable from Lockdown Day 1. Fuck off with your ‘did very little’.

@Noterook

It is unusual to be a band 5 after 8 years though.

What makes you think this? Most people qualify into a role and most roles have a band or 2 leeway within them at most. It's not the case that a nurse starts out at band 5 and then naturally progresses through the bands the longer they work there. They start at a band 5 and stay a band 5 unless they do something such as specialise to become a higher band. For many there simply isn't that option.

B5 pay is very similar to when I started in 2011. A 3% rise in itself isn't objectionable, but within the context if a decade plus of pay freezes it's unacceptable.

NHS staff are tired and traumatised. I work in a mental health ward, assaults to staff have more than doubled most months compared to 2019. I've had to make ethically compromising decisions to keep patients safe and have seen my colleagues in tears as a matter of routine. In March and April 2020 we had no PPE, then we only had expired PPE for months. A colleague died after catching covid, likely exposed by work.

We now just can't recruit nurses. Is that surprising? Agency staff are generally paid double, sometimes 4-5 times per shift than permanent staff. More staff leave, less join, and our agency bill makes a 10% rise look like small change. All for a service that's unsafe and inconsistent. But a few mean minded voters are happy, providing they don't need healthcare treatment.

We will strike. It's now too unsafe and unsustainable not to.

@TeaSoakedDisasterMagnet Which annual increment would that be? Not a single person I know at work gets any kind of annual increment pay.

You might want to look here [[https://www.nhsemployers.org/publications/hcas-pay-scales-202021

which shows the payscales.

Grade 5 starts at point 16 which is (outer London weighting)£28,691, and progresses through 7 increment points to point 23 at £35,207. Obviously most nurses progress from grade 5 to grade 6 before they hit the top of the scale, which starts at point 21 £36,070 and raises through increment points to point at 29 at £42,712. And so on for specialist nurses on grade 7 and above. Those increment points.

Obviously not everyone wants to continually progress, but you can't expect payrises over and above the cost of living if you're choosing not to further your career. The 3% offered is above the rate of inflation, and a good deal.

I think that's what people forget - this is a cost of living payrise and is meant to keep salaries the same, in view of inflation. The incremental payrises are what reward experience and career development, and are in addition to the cost of living payrise where appropriate.

I must say, I have no idea why all public sector bodies go through this dance of negotiating cost of living payrises each year. Surely it would be easier to simply agree to match RPI and keep it at that. Would save so much money in staff time and negotiations, and would be fair and transparent for all. Payrise for extra skills and experience dealt with separately under the increment system.

But I would say I think NHS staff shouldn't have to pay parking. That to me is ludicrous

There’s a lot of nonsense being spouted on here by people who either make assumptions or generalisations.

1. Most NHS staff do not get an annual increment in addition to this 3%. Band 5 scales have 3 points in them so at most you get one every two years (and will move to just one increase after 5 years). In my trust 65% of staff are at top of that scale already.

2. Even if they did, the annual increment is to reflect experience, additional skills and knowledge obtained. It reflects the fact that you give the more experienced staff the more difficult tasks. It shouldn’t really be counted as a pay rise, more like a mini-promotion

3. not everyone can progress up through the bands. I would have thought that was obvious but clearly not. Most trusts have a Christmas tree type structure, where band 5 is the bottom part of the tree and you just get fewer and fewer as you go up.

4. £1,000 a year is possibly correct on average once you included enhancements for unsocial hours, but remember NHS staff pay a lot for their pension so £1,000 a year becomes £50 per month.

5. 3% pay rise is not over 3 years - I don’t even know where that one came from!

That said I agree that 3% is a good as it is going to get. We do have a lot of vacancies, particularly in Mental Health, but it isn’t the pay that is driving people away. It’s the conditions and feeling like they matter. The pay is just one small piece of that puzzle.

3% is pathetic when they have billions and billions to waste on whatever they fancy, HS2 anyone? How about scrap HS2 and use all that money for the NHS.
I’m off to another country that values their health care workers as soon as I am able.

I got a 20% cut for several months last year to stop my employment going out of business.

No payrise this year.

10 days sick pay.

NHS staff really should try the private sector.

The Cake hasn't been getting any bigger for a few decades now. Living standards across the West are basically stagnating or even declining for the majority. The top 20% are unaffected, meanwhile the 1% are richer comparatively than ever in history. As Asia's middle class continues to expand, this will accelerate further as decent jobs in the West are automated/outsourced and heavy pressure on materials and resources.

Oh I missed one.

Band 5 pay has increased 14% over the last 10 years when comparing the same point of scale. Inflation in that time was 25%, so definitely an overall reduction in pay

For all those who say if Nursing is so amazing, then retrain.

I say, if the private sector is so well paid and an easy ride, quit nursing and take a job with no pension, no sick pay and living day to day at risk.

Teachers aren't getting a pay rise so you'll be very happy @DanniDuck . Not sure you'll be so happy that so many are leaving this year and your DCs are unlikely to get a qualified maths or science or MFL teacher. But hey, we don't do anything anyway o no great loss.