NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

I don't think it should come down to which job is more important, private cos public sector, etc, but it needs to be recognised that employee retention is particularly important in the NHS. In the private sector it is up to the company directors to manage that, in the NHS it needs to tackled by the government.

We are starting to see the effects when we can't retain sufficient lorry drivers, for various reasons, and the most probable outcome of that is you have to buy an alternative at the supermarket. The likely outcome of a shortage in frontline NHS staff doesn't bear thinking about and the government need to address that. The money is there and available but priorities are completely wrong.

Does the NHS still get the annual increment through the pay band? Few people mentioning being at the top of pay band, in my ALB this stopped before I joined and after 15 years you get bumped to the middle (used to be 6). Most people just stay at the bottom.

We will be getting nothing this year, but I'm glad NHS are getting something more, even if it's meagre. I wish we could all get better pay, it's very challenging.

3% seems generous to me too

@MasterGland

Unfortunately, it is just some basic economics at play here. Whilst there are staffing issues within the NHS, there are still plenty of people wanting to train. I believe there was a record interest in nursing courses this year. As you said, you didn't go into nursing for the money, and therein lies the issue. People go into nursing to help others, make a difference etc. There are still plenty of people with those motivations, and that keeps wages depressed. It's the same in teaching. Staffing can be tight, but there are always a ready supply of new recruits each year, and so the sausage machine continues to churn. Wages remain depressed. Wages rise for roles that are not desirable or have very rare skill sets that few people possess. A family member earns a massive salary because his role requires a specific type of maths only learnt on specific higher level degree courses. It isn't an important job, like nursing/teaching/care worker is, but few people are able to do it.

Oh yes people are still training, but I hate to burst your optimistic bubble but they don’t stay! It’s not recruiting for training that’s so much the issue, it’s keeping trained staff. And it’s not going to get better, it’s getting worse because clinical staff are voting with their feet. Our hospital advertises all the time for qualified nurses and Doctors but seriously struggle to recruit. They shouldn’t have to keep replacing staff, if working in the NHS was so attractive as some posters on here seem to think there wouldn’t be a shortage would there?

We lived in NZ for a while and we were tripping over British Doctors and Nurses, they were earning more than in the UK, and had better working conditions. Who can blame them?

Voters repeatedly vote for dismantling the NHS and driving down public services and public service workers. It's not like the Tories even pretend that's not the case.

Problem with organisations like NHS and local authority is you get paid the same for doing a certian job whether you live in London or the north. My daughter and son in law get London wages (less £2000 london allowance) and live in Nottingham where they have a brand new 4 bed town house with a mortgage less than my rent on a council 3 bed terrace. I know other costs would be the same but with the disparity in housing costs % payrises across the board/country like this are unfair

Christmas, what I mean is, your response suggests that anyone who feels like they are not being paid enough should improve their position to improve their income. Obviously if everyone does that it creates its own issues.

I don't normally post but your message made me feel really cross.

I don't know why you are comparing your role to that of an NHS nurse. Of course your job is very valuable and important but if you are unhappy with your salary and working conditions then you should take that up with your employer.

Most nurses are unhappy with their pay and working conditions and as such we are attempting to take that up with our employer, the government. Nobody would berate you or have an opinion if you challenged your employer. But of course every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to have their two pennies worth when it comes to HCPs asking for improvements when their working conditions have become untenable.

I am a band 5 nurse on a neonatal intensive care unit. I have 8 years experience plus the 3 years training. I have a bachelors degree, a post grad diploma, a post grad cert in specialist neonatal care, plus all the other courses I have completed including advanced neonatal life support and practice assessor course, and all the CPD training... The list goes on and on.

My job involves looking after very sick or very premature babies on ventilators, CPAP, high flow oxygen. I am responsible for maintaining their airway, keeping them ventilating properly, manually ventilating them when they start to struggle. Some of them are on sedatives (morphine, midazolam), muscle relaxants, inotropes (dopamine, dobutamine etc) to maintain their cardiovascular stability, very strong antibiotics, diuretics etc. These drugs and infusions are made up and administered by me. These drugs would kill a baby if administered incorrectly. I look after their fluids, nutrition, act on any deterioration, take their bloods.

I look after their parents, helping their mothers with expressing and learning how to care for their babies, sometimes in very traumatic circumstances. Sometimes I look after their babies as they are dying. I am the person that turns off the infusions, takes the breathing tube out, gives the baby to the distraught parents. I am the person who baths and dresses the baby with the parents and holds the mother in my arms when she just can't take anymore. I am also the person who gets mums and dads ready for home when their little one overcomes all of the obstacles and goes home, waved off with smiles and hugs.

The emotional and physical burden is overwhelming sometimes. We are on our feet all day running around at everybody's beck and call. Even when we are at capacity and the unit us 'closed' we still take admissions because you can't just turn away a baby that's born early or is born needing help. We have to set up spaces where there are no spaces and no additional staff to look after new arrivals.

At the beginning of the pandemic I had to send my child to my mum's for 7 weeks so that I could go to work. After that, he came home and had to fend largely for himself with no proper childcare for him at age 11. In the first couple of weeks we had no PPE whatsoever while everyone else was keeping safe at home. I had my will drawn up and signed by colleagues at work, such was the uncertainty about what we were having to do.

On Nicu our workload didn't change but during the pandemic waves, some of my colleagues were sent to work on adult covid ICU for weeks. We also got sent regularly to paeds ICU so that they could release staff to work on the adult wards. Now the children's hospital is totally full of RSV/bronchiolitis little ones (in the middle of summer) and we are getting pulled to cover the paeds wards. Staffing is absolutely abysmal. And children's services is nothing like as bad as adult services.

I think that I am very highly qualified and very highly skilled. I don't think that my pay and working conditions reflect that. I don't know where people get these ideas that nurses earn 50k? I am an experienced staff nurse. I work 32 hours and my monthly take home is 1650-1700 normally, that includes night shift, weekend and Bank Holiday pay. I regularly stay late to catch up and work through my unpaid break time. I don't get this time back.

Agency/Bank shifts and overtime are always available because we are always desperate for staff. They pay a bit more. But it's hard to do extra shifts with childcare and honestly I find it too exhausting, which is why I work 32 hours.

So, yes, I want to see some change. More so for those working in adult services. It has been appalling for them, absolutely appalling. At one time, I wouldn't have liked to kick up a fuss. But since the pandemic I have really come to understand just how valuable we are.

Out of interest, how much would be acceptable for a newly qualified nurse to start on?
I see a lot of posts about how challenging the work is, and how 3% is nowhere near a sufficient pay rise and I completely agree, but I haven't seen many posters, if any, state exactly how much they would be content to earn for the difficult job they're doing.
Perhaps if NHS staff stated the pay they feel they deserve, as well as the band they are on, people would be more aware of how far this govt are falling short?

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

Voters repeatedly vote for dismantling the NHS and driving down public services and public service workers. It's not like the Tories even pretend that's not the case.

I know and then they moan that their public services aren’t good enough! It’s like they can’t make the connection!

My message was in response to pp working as a nursery practitioner

@mrsm43s

That's 3% on top of their annual increment, is that correct?

So quite a chunky pay rise for most NHS staff, many of whom have been working a reduced workload from home throughout the whole of the pandemic. Many of whom who also have been working their socks off on the front line & I agree deserve it.

I appreciate some people are at the top of their scale, and happy to not progress further to more senior roles. But you can't expect inflation busting payrises if you're no longer progressing in your career.

3% is above inflation, and most will receive a additional increment point on top. I think its a pretty good deal to be honest.

0% for local authority staff who kept working throughout and arranged all the emergency parcels/emergency assistance in the community. Also no freebies, no discounts etc, and our base salaries are way lower than NHS for comparable jobs. I know its not a race to the bottom, but I wish we were recognised and rewarded in the way that NHS staff are. 3% should have been awarded to ALL public sector workers who were on the front line throughout.

Which annual increment would that be? Not a single person I know at work gets any kind of annual increment pay.

"I can't think of any job that requires the wide range of skills that nursing does. They need to be good with their hands, to do delicate things like suturing, they need to be numerate, have a good understanding of the science that underpins medicine, they need to have good observation skills, attention to detail, good communication skills and people skills and excellent time management. And probably loads more that I haven't thought of.

And yes, they save lives, too."

Veterinary Nurses have the a very similar education, skill set (if not more), and working hours to human nurses. Yet RVNs are on a shocking wage - I still know of very experienced RVNs who aren't even making £20k a year. Sadly there is not a public outcry for our dismal wage.

However I do agree nurses, HCAs, carers ect, do deserve more than a paltry 3% rise!

It is unusual to be a band 5 after 8 years though.

@Willowtree999

I don't think it should come down to which job is more important, private cos public sector, etc, but it needs to be recognised that employee retention is particularly important in the NHS. In the private sector it is up to the company directors to manage that, in the NHS it needs to tackled by the government.

We are starting to see the effects when we can't retain sufficient lorry drivers, for various reasons, and the most probable outcome of that is you have to buy an alternative at the supermarket. The likely outcome of a shortage in frontline NHS staff doesn't bear thinking about and the government need to address that. The money is there and available but priorities are completely wrong.

Exactly. Staff retention is dire and ws all need to see the bigger picture. You will not and are not retaining staff by treating us like this.

[quote Thedogscollar]@ChainJane
With all respect I think an extra £1000 a month is way way out.
As said in my OP whilst I genuinely feel sorry for people getting nothing out of this government that does not justify making the NHS another casualty in the shambolic way this government governs.[/quote]
Blimey, I'd have trouble respecting anyone who flippantly tosses off a 'statistic' like that. But, well, I suppose that's what watching BBC news does to your brain - you end up believing £12,000 is 3% of what nurses are currently paid per annum

@OdetoMyFamily

Are nurses/mid wives leaving mainly because of their pay or because of what sounds like back breaking shifts for ward staff?

NHS needs totally reforming. It's worth bearing in mind though that the NHS is a huge employer, the jobs are pretty secure and the pension excellent.

I’d say mainly the back breaking shifts.

I can really only talk for midwifery as have been a midwife for 15 years and am now a lecturer. There is no shortage of people wanting to become midwives. I could fill the places on my course 5x over if we had the placement capacity…..they all know what the pay is when they apply. What they don’t realise is how hard the work is due to staffing.

Any pay rise is good, but honestly what I think would be better is increasing nhs budgets for a general uplift in staffing. This would reduce stress, decrease burnout, decrease the amount of people quitting.

It’s no good training people up if the amount quitting at the other end is equal to the number of new registrants which is where midwifery is and getting worse.

They deserve a pay rise and need some sort of incentive to retain staff. But the money just isn't there/it's going on other stuff. No govt department is getting a rise this year (and had incremental rises stopped about 10years ago) and many are overworked to the point of breaking- people just talk with their feet more in other depts. it's the only way greedy MPs listen, it's harder to do in healthcare I imagine but until it happens nothing will change.
I'm sure the govt think everyone will just take out a BUPA package and be fine- I looked into that myself and couldn't afford it!

@mrsm43s

That's 3% on top of their annual increment, is that correct?

So quite a chunky pay rise for most NHS staff, many of whom have been working a reduced workload from home throughout the whole of the pandemic. Many of whom who also have been working their socks off on the front line & I agree deserve it.

I appreciate some people are at the top of their scale, and happy to not progress further to more senior roles. But you can't expect inflation busting payrises if you're no longer progressing in your career.

3% is above inflation, and most will receive a additional increment point on top. I think its a pretty good deal to be honest.

0% for local authority staff who kept working throughout and arranged all the emergency parcels/emergency assistance in the community. Also no freebies, no discounts etc, and our base salaries are way lower than NHS for comparable jobs. I know its not a race to the bottom, but I wish we were recognised and rewarded in the way that NHS staff are. 3% should have been awarded to ALL public sector workers who were on the front line throughout.

Generally there are only 2 rates for any job band now, the bottom which you get when you start and the top rate which you get between 5 and 7 years later.

Annual increments don't exist in the NHS anymore (part of the last 3 year deal)

Sometimes better the devil you know.

Look at what Welsh Labour has done to the Welsh NHS. Makes Boris look like a world leader in efficiency!

Perhaps some of the people making it all about them could retrain as nurses if they’re so jealous.

Well, they do the long shifts because there isn't the staff to cover shorter ones?
So is 3% going to help staff retention... nope - because the long shifts are still there and most importantly 3% doesn't even cover inflation, so anyone thinking of leaving, still will.

Plus is the 3% fully funded or will the NHS have to find this aditional money from existing budgets?
apols if thats already been mentioned as it will be.

No shortage of people wanting to become MPs.... weird that.

My friend's DH works for one of the privatised water companies. He's on £54k a year with his call out allowances. Maybe nurses should retrain to fix sewers, they probably wouldn't have to deal with an awful lot more shit.

I actually used to be a sewerage operative before I trained to be a midwife and with overtime and call outs I was on over 40k a year, this was 20 years ago. I left to train knowing I’d be getting less money as a midwife….so it wasn’t about the money. I genuinely had a passion to be a midwife and while I could accept a lower wage i struggle with the working conditions.

Moved to the NHS 10 years ago after working in private health care overseas. I was so proud to be part of a system that is free. In the last decade the erosion of services has been tragic. I am now, after a decade, back almost to what I earned before. Pay rises have been minimal.

@ChainJane. No way is it £1000 per month. Per year more likely. People in public sector jobs have had no, or tiny rises over the last decade, even when private sector people were getting bigger pay rises. So NHS staff are actually massively behind in real terms.

Pensions - used to be good, now on a par with lower rate private sector.

Job security - not so much, bits are being filtered off to private providers left and right.

This is just more typical tory crap - they don't believe in well funded, big public services but instead of being honest enough to say so pretend to be supportive while starving them for years and years. The NHS was on its knees before the pandemic, and the impact of the pandemic as it tries to clear back logs will be used to justify more of their NHS-hostile polices. And mental health, which we will need desperately, has always been the least well funded part of the service.

Junior doctors aren’t included so won’t even get the 3%. And that’s not just doctors straight out of medical school, it’s incredibly senior trainees with families who have spent a fortune on exams, courses, relocations etc. I’m in a relatively straightforward specialty and looking at another 4 years training (minimum) before becoming a consultant.

I remember spending the first wave working without PPE as the hospital didn’t have enough and despite being a receiving ward for COVID patients they didn’t have a formal positive test yet so we were told we didn’t need it. We were entirely disposable to management (although to be fair they did clap for us, or at least emailed us a video of themselves clapping). Looking at the polls it seems that’s the approach the majority of the population is taking so can’t say I’m too surprised.