NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

I would be careful what you wish for with performance-related pay. Yes, initially, it got rid of the dead wood hanging about, but has since become an effective tool to restrict teacher's pay generally, and leave people at the mercy of bullying managers.

I made the grievous error of reflecting back recently

I have been with the NHS 7 years, I have gained promotions, grafted hard, learnt everything and anything I could. I am now in a position of responsibility, I stay late when required, take calls and log in when on annual leave because there isn't cover for me and so on - all normal in my position. I have all the stress of managing multiple teams on multiple sites etc etc etc. I am at the top of my pay scale.

For this I am £80 per MONTH better off than if I had stayed where I started. No responsibility, no stress, turn up, work hard, go home.

And that is before we begin on the covid crap. In all honesty I can see, especially now, how important job security is but my gut feeling is to go into the private sector and actually get paid for what I do. I would put the extra aside needed to cover me if I lost my job and STILL be more than 1k per year better off as well as being able to have a better mortgage and so better home and so on.

I see no real advantage working for the NHS any more and an awful lot of disadvantages. If they want to stem the tide they have to stop trading on the good will of the staff and start making it an attractive and realistic opportunity. They have done an excellent job of making people on the outside believe that public sector are privileged, the reality is very different. It's yet another, successful, thought game by the government.

I have also just seen a pp say it is a 3 year pay deal - I haven't seen that elsewhere, if that is the case then I am actually livid for me and every other staff member out there. Frankly that is another absolutely disgusting mind trick. Like last time people who don't know how it works think ooh 3% that's great! Not realising that it is effectively a pay cut still - just slightly less of one than teachers are getting. The last pay deal was the same - an exercise in obfuscation.

@OdetoMyFamily

Leaving to do dog walking is popular! £10 per walk, 4 dogs at a time. Less stress for sure

You'd have to walk a lot of dogs to replicate the salary and benefits of being an NHS clinician.

You are right - but the vast vast majority of staff are not clinicians! You wouldn't have to walk many dogs to replace the income of a domestic assistant but the NHS would be equally screwed without them.

I read a post the other day that suggested that they expected at least 45k for a professional after 10 years of experience.
As a nurse I am now on that after initially qualifying in 1994, doing my degree, attending academic courses salient to my work and completing a masters. I see patients independently, prescribe, discharge, admit,plan their care and yes save lives, as well as being a leader.
I am on the verge of leaving, we as a group are exhausted- I have never seen morale so low. Out of four staff recently - 1has retired, 1 resigned, I am thinking of either reducing hours or leaving and 1 is staying for the time being but has plans to leave.
It's not all about money but it helps to retain staff thereby having enough staff to manage the departments.
My colleagues across the board are fed up- including but not limited to drs, nurses, physios, admin staff. 3% is not going to attract staff in and retain them.

@OdetoMyFamily

Few employees work 12 hour shifts, sometimes putting their health at risk, and see people die, including children, regularly

A minority of NHS workers see people, particulary children, die.

Millions of people work long shifts putting their health are risk often 5, 6, 7 days/nights a week. OP 4 days off a week. And presumably good sickness cover rather that SSP.

OP also thinks that no one works nights/weekends etc without shift allowances. Which shows how utterly cosseted some people with a lifetime of working for our dear NHS are.

Whilst I appreciate your input with all due respect it is utter tosh.

I work 37.5 hrs per week condensed into 3 shifts, yes so I get 4 days off but God do I need them. I trained long and hard to get where I am. I do not feel cosseted after a lifetime working for our dear NHS as you put it, only exhausted.

I have just had a weeks annual leave of which I spent 3 days approx 6 hours each day doing training on emergency obstetric scenarios and ctg's which is compulsory in my trust. We are advised by our managers that we can do this at work which is impossible as no time for this so I did it in my own time on my holiday as we have a deadline to finish it.
In my career to date I have unfortunately seen plenty of people die. I have also seen many babies born sleeping so please don't make assumptions about NHS staff as you obviously do not understand the job.

The NHS certainly would be screwed without domestic staff but as the OP is a midwife I assume this thread is about clinical staff.

Just out of interest, isn't much of the domestic and catering work outsourced to private companies?

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I agree the 3% is too low. I think the government should be using their position as major employer to drive up average wages not keep them down. Wage stagnation is a problem the government should be trying to fix. GDP per capita has outstripped real wages for too long.

But I'm not understanding the staffing point though. According to the published nhs data the vacancy rate is at a historic low. In the SE nursing vacancies are 10.9% vs 2018 when they were 14%. That apparently reflects fte permanent roles.

It jars with the anecdotal evidence on this thread. Is the data being messed with somehow?

Just to pick up on a point here, be very careful about equivalence. One thing that happens time and time again is shifting of benchmarks. When vacancies are high staff are expected to cope anyway. They have no choice, they can't and mostly won't allow patient care and service provision to suffer if at all possible.

This goes on for a while whilst recruitment drives happen etc then again because no one wanted the jobs advertised. After a while those higher up look and say "hmm, you've been managing without that staff member for x amount of time, clearly you don't need them" withdraw the post and record it as a cost saving.

This has two effects, 1 pressure on hard working and well meaning staff becomes "locked in" and 2 the unfilled vacancy number drops - not because it was filled but because it was removed.

Times that up over every ward/department over every Trust and you get an apparent positive change in the statistics that the government likes to waft around whilst there is actually a negative change on the ground. They started to reward trusts for doing this a couple of years ago which may go some way to explain the figures you are quoting.

Just out of interest, isn't much of the domestic and catering work outsourced to private companies?

It used to be. Increasingly it’s been brought back in-house because the contracts were too rigid for the staff to do a proper job. Minimum wage, zero hours contracts meant unmotivated staff and dirty hospitals. It turned out to be a more expensive way of getting a far worse service. Quelle surprise!

It's dreadful. NHS staff obviously deserve more.

This is why people with lesser morals (like me) work in the private sector. I help no one, but I get paid and rewarded well and treated like a human being.

@ChainJane

3% seems pretty generous to me considering many people in the private sector are getting nothing at all. The BBC report I read said the average nurse would be getting an extra thousand a month because of it.

NHS staff are in the fortunate position that their jobs are never going to be made redundant, a comfort few employees have these days.

My earlier post went a bit wrong! 1k per month. Nope, it's 1k per year. I don't think it's much considering the last year's events.

I know people in the private sector whinge about public sector staff being well looked after, this is utter nonsense. There are lots of private sector jobs that pay very well and their wages have increased much more than 3% this last year. In fact the 3% is far below predicted wage growth across the board this year (and it's late!). Most of the people with this mentality have never worked in these conditions or been abused by patients (as in MH or A&E services). I do think it is insulting to be honest and yes I totally understand why it is hard to recruit into roles. You need to work your arse into the ground doing a degree, placements and probably part-time work alongside this to start on a similar wage as an administrator (with 3 years experience) with no degree.

We need to get rid of this public vs private sector mentality. Wages have not risen in conjunction to the cost of living and our spending power on what we do earn has diminished. We all need a payrise, wherever we work. The public sector vs private sector debate is the same old divide and conquer (so nobody looks at where we are going wrong) tactic being used by this government. There are areas that can't recruit into healthcare roles due to the cost of housing, but the banding system is fixed, so there is little that can be done about it. It's not really about which pays more, but whether you want the quality of care you receive to suffer due to lack of skilled staff or not.

@OdetoMyFamily

The NHS certainly would be screwed without domestic staff but as the OP is a midwife I assume this thread is about clinical staff.

Just out of interest, isn't much of the domestic and catering work outsourced to private companies?

Not exactly. They used to be NHS employed. However it was found to be financially beneficial (it hasn't been adequately explained who actually gets this benefit as far as I am aware) to set up limited liability companies who work only for that trust. Trust staff were then Tuped across to these LLPs. They are not private companies as such no and the staff in them (except very recent recruits) joined the NHS then were moved wholesale without any choice.

The thread is about the proposed pay deal which affects almost all staff across the NHS.

I hate all the public sector v private sector crap. We all need each other. We are all valuable.

I’m a carer for my disabled child. I get less than £70 a week. When we use the NHS, I want the staff to be happy and treated well. I want everyone, wherever they work, to have a decent wage that affords them a good standard of living. I need more income, we live a very meagre existence. We don’t need billionaires.

Overtime? NHS staff don't even get paid for their (often non existent) lunch break.

And those saying that only clinical, front line staff deserve a pay rise.

Our IT staff were contacted on BOXING DAY, all leave cancelled over xmas, and pulled in to work 13, 14, 15 hour days to open new wards to cope with Covid. For 6 weeks, they worked 7 days a week, for no over time, in covid positive areas.

That's just one example of how it wasn't just very front line who work their arses off. I am seeing excellent IT staff leave as they can earn so much more in private sector. Which leaves us with, frankly, the IT staff who couldn't get a better paid job.

There are a lot of private contracts @Bufferingkisses. But, you’re right they took NHS staff and gave them the bummest of bum deals. It’s good to see it starting to be reversed.

@JanetPondersley

Overtime? NHS staff don't even get paid for their (often non existent) lunch break.

And those saying that only clinical, front line staff deserve a pay rise.

Our IT staff were contacted on BOXING DAY, all leave cancelled over xmas, and pulled in to work 13, 14, 15 hour days to open new wards to cope with Covid. For 6 weeks, they worked 7 days a week, for no over time, in covid positive areas.

That's just one example of how it wasn't just very front line who work their arses off. I am seeing excellent IT staff leave as they can earn so much more in private sector. Which leaves us with, frankly, the IT staff who couldn't get a better paid job.

Absolutely agree with this. Our support staff have been as hard working and affected by all this as anyone else. Again it is the popular, projected view that the government and the press like to push. When the shit hit the fan every person was affected and every person dug in and did what they could when it was most needed and the system would have fallen over if any single part of the whole decided not to. Stop falling for the shitty tactics being used here.

That's 3% on top of their annual increment, is that correct?

So quite a chunky pay rise for most NHS staff, many of whom have been working a reduced workload from home throughout the whole of the pandemic. Many of whom who also have been working their socks off on the front line & I agree deserve it.

I appreciate some people are at the top of their scale, and happy to not progress further to more senior roles. But you can't expect inflation busting payrises if you're no longer progressing in your career.

3% is above inflation, and most will receive a additional increment point on top. I think its a pretty good deal to be honest.

0% for local authority staff who kept working throughout and arranged all the emergency parcels/emergency assistance in the community. Also no freebies, no discounts etc, and our base salaries are way lower than NHS for comparable jobs. I know its not a race to the bottom, but I wish we were recognised and rewarded in the way that NHS staff are. 3% should have been awarded to ALL public sector workers who were on the front line throughout.

@Blossomtoes

There are a lot of private contracts *@Bufferingkisses*. But, you’re right they took NHS staff and gave them the bummest of bum deals. It’s good to see it starting to be reversed.

Sadly it isn't. The LLPs are the newest response when the outsourcing failed. I'm sure, once this fails, someone will be along with another bright idea

Just apply for a band 6 post or specialise in an area

Mrsm, there is no such thing as an annual increment. There never was (they always stopped when you got to certain point referred to as top.of the pay band) however even that was removed in the last "wonderful" pay deal. There is now an increment at years 2, 4 and 6 (or 2, 4 and 8 or something) but that's it. Once you have those you get nothing more.

@mrsm43s

That's 3% on top of their annual increment, is that correct?

So quite a chunky pay rise for most NHS staff, many of whom have been working a reduced workload from home throughout the whole of the pandemic. Many of whom who also have been working their socks off on the front line & I agree deserve it.

I appreciate some people are at the top of their scale, and happy to not progress further to more senior roles. But you can't expect inflation busting payrises if you're no longer progressing in your career.

3% is above inflation, and most will receive a additional increment point on top. I think its a pretty good deal to be honest.

0% for local authority staff who kept working throughout and arranged all the emergency parcels/emergency assistance in the community. Also no freebies, no discounts etc, and our base salaries are way lower than NHS for comparable jobs. I know its not a race to the bottom, but I wish we were recognised and rewarded in the way that NHS staff are. 3% should have been awarded to ALL public sector workers who were on the front line throughout.

We don't get an increment every year anymore - it can be every 2 or 3 years now - and staff at the top of the band obviously don't get one

Christmas, What happens when everyone has moved up to a band 6 or specialised? Who does the band 2 work? This isn't about individuals.

@LakieLady there aren't band 1 anymore it's band 2 and that's cleaner's admin etc. Csw are band 3

The LLPs are the newest response when the outsourcing failed. I'm sure, once this fails, someone will be along with another bright idea

I didn’t realise that. It makes me sad and angry in equal measures that the NHS keeps pissing about like this and wasting the money that could be spent on a realistic pay rise. I saw three complete restructures in my NHS career, all detrimental and all costing the earth.

@Bufferingkisses well a band 2 won't get a sister or specialist nurse position as nurses start at band 5. The cleaners, kitchen staff and porters do band 2 jobs. Newly qualified etc and people wishing not to progress do band 5 jobs. Yes I am a nurse and I have specialised and work in private sector.

@ChainJane

3% seems pretty generous to me considering many people in the private sector are getting nothing at all. The BBC report I read said the average nurse would be getting an extra thousand a month because of it.

NHS staff are in the fortunate position that their jobs are never going to be made redundant, a comfort few employees have these days.

Per year...not per month