NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

@OdetoMyFamily

They’re the people that keep us alive

See it's this kind of hyperbole which causes frustration. Many occupations are essential to keeping us alive and healthy; those who work in the sewage industry for a start. Refuse disposal workers. Lorry drivers who deliver food and drugs to supermarkets. The list goes on and on but it's some NHS workers who try to manipulate the agenda.

My friend's DH works for one of the privatised water companies. He's on £54k a year with his call out allowances. Maybe nurses should retrain to fix sewers, they probably wouldn't have to deal with an awful lot more shit.

Only a small proportion of lorry drivers are engaged in essential food deliveries, so that's a false equivalence.

I can't think of any job that requires the wide range of skills that nursing does. They need to be good with their hands, to do delicate things like suturing, they need to be numerate, have a good understanding of the science that underpins medicine, they need to have good observation skills, attention to detail, good communication skills and people skills and excellent time management. And probably loads more that I haven't thought of.

And yes, they save lives, too.

Thanks @TooOldandTired, I didn't realise that. What are Band 1 jobs, HCAs or something?

Extra 1000 a month for the average nurse 😂

@LakieLady

I just worked out the hourly rate for a band 1 nurse, using the standard public sector hours of 37.5 pw.

It came to £9.23. Minimum wage (I refuse to call it "living wage", because it isn't) is now £8.91.

So a graduate, after 3 years of training, gets a few pence per hour more than the lowest paid adult workers in the country, and is tens of thousands in debt for the privilege. The difference is barely enough to buy a coffee a day.

I'm beyond disgusted.

What's a band 1 nurse

Oh to have a 3% pay increase, a fantastic pension scheme, generous annual leave allowance and very little or no chance of redundancy.

There are so many people whose lives have changed enormously having been furloughed or made redundant during the pandemic. Please
consider when complaining about the 'paltry and insulting pay rise' those who have struggled to pay their mortgage and feed their families.

Why do nursing staff always complain about having to pay to park whilst at work, that is normal for most?

@LakieLady most people in those jobs start on band 2 which is for HCA's and catering assistants

@LakieLady I've never really seen band 1 jobs so not sure what they are!

Band 1 roles no longer exist for new staff to come into. They are things such as domestic support.

Band 2 roles include health care support assistants who when fully trained can apply for band 3 roles. A nurse just starting out from university is on band 5.

Yes we receive extra money for working nights as does any worker and equally extra for weekends and public holidays tho contrary to popular opinion we do not get double time on bank holidays.

I'm sorry but that's not correct re any workers getting extra for nights and weekends, done nights in care and hospitality at the same flat rate as days and no increase for BH either. It's pretty standard in care work to not be paid extra for nights, weekends, bank holidays or overtime, standard across the board rate which is usually nmw unless you're senior, then it's pence above (I'm currently on 9p above nmw as a senior).

That's not to say that I don't think you should get it, but please don't assume it's a standard thing because it's not.

As a civil servant who won’t be getting anything at all I think it’s very fair.

Few employees work 12 hour shifts, sometimes putting their health at risk, and see people die, including children, regularly

A minority of NHS workers see people, particulary children, die.

Millions of people work long shifts putting their health are risk often 5, 6, 7 days/nights a week. OP 4 days off a week. And presumably good sickness cover rather that SSP.

OP also thinks that no one works nights/weekends etc without shift allowances. Which shows how utterly cosseted some people with a lifetime of working for our dear NHS are.

I agree the 3% is too low. I think the government should be using their position as major employer to drive up average wages not keep them down. Wage stagnation is a problem the government should be trying to fix. GDP per capita has outstripped real wages for too long.

But I'm not understanding the staffing point though. According to the published nhs data the vacancy rate is at a historic low. In the SE nursing vacancies are 10.9% vs 2018 when they were 14%. That apparently reflects fte permanent roles.

It jars with the anecdotal evidence on this thread. Is the data being messed with somehow?

I feel for you OP. I’ve been a teacher for 21 years and with a 10 year pay freeze but increased inflation and bills we essentially take a pay cut each year. A 3% pay rise after a 10 year pay freeze is paltry, but the public will only on the here and now, not what has done before and no doubt what will come in the future.

*see not on

@OdetoMyFamily

Are nurses/mid wives leaving mainly because of their pay or because of what sounds like back breaking shifts for ward staff?

NHS needs totally reforming. It's worth bearing in mind though that the NHS is a huge employer, the jobs are pretty secure and the pension excellent.

It's both. I work in ICU and we have had 14 staff members leave for higher paid jobs. If anything, we have realised our worth during this pandemic.

@Iquitit

Yes we receive extra money for working nights as does any worker and equally extra for weekends and public holidays tho contrary to popular opinion we do not get double time on bank holidays.

I'm sorry but that's not correct re any workers getting extra for nights and weekends, done nights in care and hospitality at the same flat rate as days and no increase for BH either. It's pretty standard in care work to not be paid extra for nights, weekends, bank holidays or overtime, standard across the board rate which is usually nmw unless you're senior, then it's pence above (I'm currently on 9p above nmw as a senior).

That's not to say that I don't think you should get it, but please don't assume it's a standard thing because it's not.

Thankyou for replying. I stand corrected then. I think that is awful that you get no extra payment gir working un social hours in such an important and essential role. I think this reflects on the erosion over the years of the influence that unions brought to the workforce.

@LakieLady

Thanks *@TooOldandTired*, I didn't realise that. What are Band 1 jobs, HCAs or something?

There aren’t many Band 1 jobs. They tend to be cleaners/car park attendants.

Only a small proportion of lorry drivers are engaged in essential food deliveries, so that's a false equivalence

And they are as vital to the country as the NHS. They get food to the supermarkets and shops that feed 60 million people.

Unfortunately, it is just some basic economics at play here. Whilst there are staffing issues within the NHS, there are still plenty of people wanting to train. I believe there was a record interest in nursing courses this year. As you said, you didn't go into nursing for the money, and therein lies the issue. People go into nursing to help others, make a difference etc. There are still plenty of people with those motivations, and that keeps wages depressed. It's the same in teaching. Staffing can be tight, but there are always a ready supply of new recruits each year, and so the sausage machine continues to churn. Wages remain depressed.

Wages rise for roles that are not desirable or have very rare skill sets that few people possess. A family member earns a massive salary because his role requires a specific type of maths only learnt on specific higher level degree courses. It isn't an important job, like nursing/teaching/care worker is, but few people are able to do it.

The reality is virtually all public roles are underpaid IMO (and I work in the private sector) as many such jobs are very demanding and very important to society.

But the public/electorate does not want the government to raise taxes on ... anyone. So there it is.

I’m amazed they offered us 3% to be honest.

A family member earns a massive salary because his role requires a specific type of maths only learnt on specific higher level degree courses. It isn't an important job, like nursing/teaching/care worker is, but few people are able to do it.

It's true to an extent. The problem is that, in for example, teaching "being able to do it" and "being able to do it really well" are very different things.

This government is paying the market rate for the former but (like most Conservative governments before it) has no interest in paying what would be the market rate for the latter.

There is a crisis coming. DP is a nurse. He's worked throughout the pandemic, cheerfully putting up with it (being pulled from his elective surgical ward to ICU last April, for example). He's now at breaking point. I'm watching a grown man cry because he's so stressed at work and so scared he'll get the blame for other people's errors. So many staff have left or are off long-term sick. They're covering shifts with staff who are incompetent. One was under supervision, is completely incapable and dangerous, but got signed off to practice because it's easier for management.

The pay rise wouldn't fix this. I don't know what would fix this. Proper performance management, pay linked to performance, and (unfortunately) less generous sick pay maybe.

Leaving to do dog walking is popular! £10 per walk, 4 dogs at a time. Less stress for sure

You'd have to walk a lot of dogs to replicate the salary and benefits of being an NHS clinician.

@ChainJane

3% seems pretty generous to me considering many people in the private sector are getting nothing at all. The BBC report I read said the average nurse would be getting an extra thousand a month because of it.

NHS staff are in the fortunate position that their jobs are never going to be made redundant, a comfort few employees have these days.

A thousand a month extra due to a 3% increase??? That's per YEAR.

I. Hear