NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

I know two nurses, one has already left for the private sector & the other one is leaving once she has served the period after training, the one who has already left works regular shift pattern in a private hospital & gets 25% more than in the NHS for basic hours which means she doesn't have to work bank shifts to make up her money.

[quote fromdownwest]@slightlysnippy - Look how Welsh Labour has destroyed the Welsh NHS[/quote]
I only mention the Conservatives as my political knowledge really only goes back 10 years, so not suggesting I have any great hope for our other parties.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

This thread shows how well the rich have played a divide and conquer game.

The cost of a 12.5% rise for the NHS would be £4.4bn. They are spending £107bn on High speed 2 rail.
Of that £4.4bn 80% would go back to government in taxes. It would have a powerful money multiplier effect. So the actual cost the government would need to find would be about £880m. You could raise that by charging second homeowners another 2% in stamp duty. Just as one way to take it from the wealthy rather than the majority.

It shouldn't be about private sector vs public service. Its not a competition on who's got it worst. It's about
a) what jobs do we value as a society
b) the government having a duty to show leadership on wage stagnation
C) the agency bank staff spend is now £6.6bn which is 14% of the staffing cost for the whole nhs. This is ridiculously inefficient and should be the first place they look.

Great post. Most people had a terrible pandemic but in a civilized society we take care of people, not just the ones who can afford it. NHS is essential to that.

'know two nurses, one has already left for the private sector'

Well she must be mad. 25% more pay? How unusual, they're often paid less.

Private hospitals are far worse tbh, their sick pay and holiday pay allowance is crap, as is the pension scheme. Consultants run the show all dependant on their nhs commitments so lists cancelled willy nilly and staff messed about.

Private hospitals are like in the old days of the nhs, consultants and their god complexes all bowed and scraped to. I think they even make the nurses wear frilly hats and pinnies at some places.

@ChainJane

3% seems pretty generous to me considering many people in the private sector are getting nothing at all. The BBC report I read said the average nurse would be getting an extra thousand a month because of it.

NHS staff are in the fortunate position that their jobs are never going to be made redundant, a comfort few employees have these days.

An extra thousand a MONTH??? 😂😂😂

That would be lovely. That is not the reality. At all. An extra thousand over a year more like. I’m a midwife and we have no staff, we’re relying on students to plug the gaps, more so than usual. We are on our knees.

I left the NHS for the private sector after 16 years. The terms and conditions are not so good e.g sick pay or carers leave, however I am paid more, get to work directly with patients rather than waste hours of time in pointless meetings and I'm less stressed and happier. I cannot see myself ever returning to the NHS unless they offer vastly more pay and actually demonstrate that they value my profession (Speech and Language Therapy).

'NHS workers get concessions' lol. Covid ? Slipped disc ? Mental health problems ? At risk of all kinds of illnesses due to night rotation ? Constantly feeling stressed and worn out ?
And the pp who said it's unusual to be a band 5 with 8 years experience is talking rubbish. On our ICU we had no band 6 vacancies for 9 years. It's also difficult to move up and sideways because those jobs require supplementary qualifications too. I considered applying for a 6 in alcohol dependency.

Posted too soon. I considered applying for a 6 in alcohol dependency. I've many years experience caring for patients with alcohol related liver failure on ICU but that sadly wasn't enough.

Then it can only be a good thing because we need a model that isn’t shit*
So a model that attracts nurses and doctors, because I'm not sure who you want to give you treatment and carry out your surgery.

So what do you suggest to attract staff that doesn't involve better pay and better working conditions, the latter being mainly dependent on services being full staffed.

I thought you were going to say you were an “expert by experience” as the job had driven you to it!!

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow where do you get figures from? And have you considered the cost in pension and contibutions in that and is that to give every staff a rise or just some, aa some are well paid already where as others less so

@fromdownwest if your friend working in A/E was bored during the pandemic what on earth was her
role ?

@vivainsomnia maybe not at the same risk but neither was the whole of the nhs like some make out , those that were should be rewarded not every single one some who would not of seen anyone and been less risk

JaniieJones she doesn't work for a Bupa hospital, she works for one under Aspen Healthcare, no getting called in due to short staffing, her shifts are set days each week, patients are all routine surgery, no working through breaks & the minute the shift is over she is done, gets private healthcare, free parking, no frilly uniform. She is a working mum & works 2 lates & 2 nights a week.

@Egghead68

I thought you were going to say you were an “expert by experience” as the job had driven you to it!!

I was thinking the same, she will be after this payrise announcement!

@Sanguinesuzy not all hospitals had the same pressure as others , we live in area with low cases ( was ) and not lots in hospital in the peaks and a & e was quiet here as people avoided As much as possible, so even within the nhs each hospital would of seen it very differently as well, yes all bad but some more horrendous than others.
That has changed of recent though a & e back to warnings of busy as it was pre pandemic
The nhs needa a huge shake up from too to bottom

NHS concessions - free PPE and open air changing room that is sweltering in Summer and snowy in Winter for home visits.

Several GPs and HCPs here have dusted off retirement and emigration plans. 'Lucky to have a job' probably hasn't tipped people over the edge but hasn't helped.

Where did £20-£37bn track and trace go? The magnitude of the decisions about and destinations of that pot of money might keep public enquiries busy for a few years. Bit tricky for the Ministers and advisors who might not want to let go of the tiger's tail.

@slightlysnippy why does the degree matter ? If someone has had to work there way up or sit entrance exams etc its all tough and also the rise is for all nhs many who don't have a degree and many like drs and consultants who are well paid

Why do you think so many nurses & physios are leaving to work for assessment companies doing DWP assessments? The money is better plus they get productivity bonuses, office hours etc.

I think the problem with NHS pay is that government has a monopoly on employment. The right pay is the amount you have to pay to get the staff, but the staff can't just switch to a more generous employer if the on they're at is underpaying.

Each NHS trust should be free to set its own salaries. If they competed with each other for staff it would no longer be possible to under-pay.

Underpaying is not a good long-term strategy for the government, as it ultimately results in staff shortages, by definition.

@Thedogscollar thats the same though often in private sector , minimal pay rises and only way to earn more is to go up to a higher level job.
Personally I would like to see bonus for staff at 5 years service etc , helps retention.
For all too long many companies just give basic pay rise 1-2 % and you usually find yourself with less by times bills go up.
My dh got no pay rise this year and worked throughout and company blame the pandemic despite being a service not being financially affected too much.
He gets paid a 37 hr week but does more like 50 , but they know they can push it as not a lot around here that pays £30000 .

Goverment need to end the agency staff and just get more in working
My sil is a social worker and did agwncy work for a couple of years and was paid silly money, could of prob employed 2/3 social workers on contracts helping keep
Work load manageable and then pay would be worth it , and I am sure it is similar in the nhs

[quote worriedatthemoment]@ThinkAboutItTomorrow where do you get figures from? And have you considered the cost in pension and contibutions in that and is that to give every staff a rise or just some, aa some are well paid already where as others less so [/quote]
It was the RCN that said the £4.25bn based on an across the board 12.5% uplift (though the £34bn wage bill is lower than I've seen estimated elsewhere, I'm guessing it's nhs England vs total nhs (@£47bn). But the maths looks sound to me.

www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/unions-demand-nurse-pay-rise-without-delay-ahead-of-budget-26-02-2021/

The figure on the government recouping 80% is from the London economics consultancy

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/18/government-pay-rise-cost-nhs-england-staff-report

I'm sure like any of these kinds of 'all in' estimates there's a degree of licence taken but certainly there would be a big money multiplier and I can't think of many better ways to inject £4.4billion into the economy right now.

Even if you don't like to see consultants line their pockets but over 40% of their increase goes straight back via hmrc. Though I agree some sort of taper system to give more to the lowest paid would be ideal.

OP I'm with you.

I'm only a student nurse, I've only experienced placements, and I plan to only work for NHS for 6 months for experience.