NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

@vivainsomnia

many MANY people have had a far worse time over this past 15-16 months, and been through a LOT more shit than any of the NHS workers Not really interested in the debate whether 3% is reasonable, but would like to know who has had it much worse than the staff who had to cope with treating covid patients. I believe NHS workers were the highest percentage of covid deaths considering all professions. So who is it that had it so much worse in the last 15 months?

Maybe the family on zero hour contracts living day to day in hopsitality Or the local restaurant owner who tragically took his own life due to the stress of closing his business. The small family run business that saw 50 years of work go down the pan.

To ignore all the victims of this pandemic and try to state that the job that definatley would not have been lost were the most hard done by is beyond.

Yes, they had it tough (some of them) - my radiogrpaher friend and A&E friend were complaining of boredom during the lockdown.

But do not for one minute think that people out side of the NHS were sat in their garden drinking wine and having zoom jollies

I think a key issue of why it's a poor experience to work for the NHS is understaffing due to the constant high level of vacancies.

This could be helped by not charging University fees of around £30k to student nurses. Then more people would train to be a nurse and they would keep more of their pay once working as no student loan repayment deductions.

Once we have filled our vacancies and have proper staffing levels life will be better for all nurses.

I think the working conditions are an important part of why nurses leave the profession - it's not just about pay.

'3% is enough. Bad optics to give more when people are languishing on waiting lists and can’t see a GP.'

This.

The nhs offers many things including a brilliant pension scheme, full sick pay for 6 months then half pay for another 6 months. Excellent holiday allowance.

Yes it's of course hard graft at ward level but there are massive opportunities to train and tonfurther yourself professionally.

I have many friends in the nhs, all now senior from starting out as newly qualified nurses years ago. It is a good organisation to work for, staff are looked after. 3% is more than enough.

From BBC website (directly copied) : According to government calculations for the average nurse, this will mean an additional £1,000 a year, while many porters and cleaners will receive around £540.

As Lord Bethell implied, HCPs are 'lucky to have a job' OP.

Figures are contested and comparisons are difficult but have seen analyses that show public sector inflation adjusted pay cuts of c12% since 2020 or £6000 or something else. Average private sector pay rises over the same period are above inflation, possibly +1% pa net of inflation. Other figures are available. Low pay in the private sector is terrible too.

My investment banking and City financial services acquaintances are convinced 'we can't pay more than we earn' which is true to the extent a national economy differs from a household economy, until there are losses to be socialised like 2008 and 2020-2021.

@Blossomtoes

Do you get shift allowances?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

To actually answer the question:

All time on Saturday (midnight to midnight) and any week day after 8 pm and before 6 am there is a 40% supplement on top of basic pay.

All time on Sundays and Public Holidays (midnight to midnight) is a 60% supplement. That's for bands 4 - 9, the percentages are higher for lower paid staff.

This thread shows how well the rich have played a divide and conquer game.

The cost of a 12.5% rise for the NHS would be £4.4bn. They are spending £107bn on High speed 2 rail.
Of that £4.4bn 80% would go back to government in taxes. It would have a powerful money multiplier effect. So the actual cost the government would need to find would be about £880m. You could raise that by charging second homeowners another 2% in stamp duty. Just as one way to take it from the wealthy rather than the majority.

It shouldn't be about private sector vs public service. Its not a competition on who's got it worst. It's about
a) what jobs do we value as a society
b) the government having a duty to show leadership on wage stagnation
C) the agency bank staff spend is now £6.6bn which is 14% of the staffing cost for the whole nhs. This is ridiculously inefficient and should be the first place they look.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@MissyB1 I just looked it up and says between £80-100000 a year that should buy a nice house on a 25 year mortgage [/quote]
Depends on your personal circumstances and where you live I imagine. My point was not every Doctor comes from a middle or upper class family, and has mummy or Daddy helping them out. Traditionally a lot of Doctors did, that is changing now. My dh is from a working class, state school background.

But all that aside. The bottom line is that if NHS staff aren’t happy then we need to do what it takes to keep them. I don’t actually think there is much choice , because who else is going to look after us when we are sick?

It's complicated but current employees' NHS pension is career average rather than final salary and employee contributions are up to c14.5% though banded by salary/income and that rate is morefor high earning doctors. Not saying it's not generous compared with most private sector or contribution-based though an element will be the equivalent of deferred salary.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Thedogscollar how can your take home not have changed in 10 years as if nothing else we have also had tax band changed which means increases and also have you not gone up any bands or are you same as started? And not had any rises in 10'years at all ? [/quote]
Been at top of my band well over 10 yrs my wages have risen but by a very very small amount.

What annoys me more than just the crap pay rise is when politicians come out with statements like "the 3% pay rise recognises the dedication and commitment of NHS staff", it is just insulting and they can f**k right off!

The dedication and commitment of the vast majority of NHS stuff but particularly the most frontline staff over the last 18 months (I'm a paramedic) is worth far more that 3%. I'd prefer it if the politicians statements were honest, something like "due to the ongoing economic situation resulting from multiple lockdowns we are disappointed to be able to only offer a 3% pay rise, and realise this doesn't even come close to recognising the awesome effort of NHS staff".

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

This thread shows how well the rich have played a divide and conquer game.

The cost of a 12.5% rise for the NHS would be £4.4bn. They are spending £107bn on High speed 2 rail.
Of that £4.4bn 80% would go back to government in taxes. It would have a powerful money multiplier effect. So the actual cost the government would need to find would be about £880m. You could raise that by charging second homeowners another 2% in stamp duty. Just as one way to take it from the wealthy rather than the majority.

It shouldn't be about private sector vs public service. Its not a competition on who's got it worst. It's about
a) what jobs do we value as a society
b) the government having a duty to show leadership on wage stagnation
C) the agency bank staff spend is now £6.6bn which is 14% of the staffing cost for the whole nhs. This is ridiculously inefficient and should be the first place they look.

To say the rich have played divide and conquer is disingenuous.

A lot of the animosity is based from the people in the private sector being sick and tired of the demands and complaints of the public sector members.

I agree it is not a race to the bottom, however, I think that many in the public sector need to take a look at their situations compared to others before they complain. Then act shocked when there is push back.

Where were the £20-£37bn? costs of track and trace incurred?

@GreenLakes

Personally I think the 3% rise is really the best that can be afforded in the circumstances. Lockdowns don’t pay for themselves and there simply isn’t the money to fund a 15% rise like the unions want.

I am pleased though that the money that would have gone on a rise for teachers will go to doctors and nurses instead.

Many teachers did very little during the first lockdown last year and I suspect schools would have shut last February and never reopened yet if it was up to the unions!

What a nasty piece of work you are

I think what a lot of people are missing on this thread is that nurses are degree qualified professional and as such should get pay that is related to the training, experience and skills. They are not to be compared to non degree required jobs in the private sector that have been on the frontline and had a tough time during COVID.

But prison officers, poilCemen, teachers, firefighters , supermarket all faced public day by day
None of them were at the same level of risk than front line workers. I have family and friends who are teachers, work in supermarkets, police officers, as well as doctors and nurses, and the latest most certainly had it much worse.

I do agree that front line workers should have been rewarded separately to other NHS workers.

@Carycy I don't know where you're getting your information about civil service benefits but what you've said is untrue for the department I work in. We get fewer days leave than the NHS until after 5 years service (when there is one day in it) and after 10 years service, a civil servant has three days less. We definitely don't get a year's full pay on maternity and can't take our pensions until the state retirement age.

@NotPersephone

My dh is from a working class, state school background

DH: grew up in developing country during war. Recruited from home country by NHS.

Me: raised on council estate by single mother.

No silver spoons here. Just hard work for decent employers.

Yeah my dh works hard but the Government doesn’t appear to be a decent employer for NHS staff. That’s why I left the NHS after 26 years, and why I suspect he will leave too. All that experience and expertise wasted.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

This thread shows how well the rich have played a divide and conquer game.

The cost of a 12.5% rise for the NHS would be £4.4bn. They are spending £107bn on High speed 2 rail.
Of that £4.4bn 80% would go back to government in taxes. It would have a powerful money multiplier effect. So the actual cost the government would need to find would be about £880m. You could raise that by charging second homeowners another 2% in stamp duty. Just as one way to take it from the wealthy rather than the majority.

It shouldn't be about private sector vs public service. Its not a competition on who's got it worst. It's about
a) what jobs do we value as a society
b) the government having a duty to show leadership on wage stagnation
C) the agency bank staff spend is now £6.6bn which is 14% of the staffing cost for the whole nhs. This is ridiculously inefficient and should be the first place they look.

Conservative play a good game, with the help of our media, there big pre election promise to invest ( I can't remember the exact amount ) £4 billion to the NHS if you vote for us, but look into the impact of that amount of money, that was enough to keep the NHS running, with no money left for the much needed improvements.

@slightlysnippy - Look how Welsh Labour has destroyed the Welsh NHS

Lots of NHS staff threaten to leave: few do
Sadly incorrect. They really do leave. the NHS has been experiencing increases in staff shortages year on year for about 10 years now. It's the biggest threat to the survival of the NHS.