NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

A newly qualified community nurse or allied health professional such as OT, physio or speech therapist will start at £24,907. They will also have approx £50,000 of student loan debt.

Every single student for every course in the uk will likely have £50,000 of student debt, and many won't earn £24k from day 1 outside london with a defined benefit pension scheme.

think its more than just a payrise needed though , 12.5 hr shifts isn't ideal, much better to have more staff, shorter shifts and a less stressful job, that then the salary may not look as bad.

@worriedatthemoment I agree there needs to be an overhaul of nurses hours. The days when junior doctors did 100hrs a week have long gone. Why 12 hour shift patterns? It does enable households to work opposite shifts without childcare which is a bonus.

@Blossomtoes i work in the private sector I lost my job as covid meant the industry I work for had to lay off , this was before furlough was even though off.
I have only found temping jobs since as the amount of jobs diminished as companies were not recruiting
I have struggled to pay my bills and put food on table, and jobs now being advertised are 40'hrs a week £19000 at best and Not just basic admin a lot of responsinlbility and free overtime expected.
28 days hol inc babk hols, no sick pay.
You can't seriously think the private sector is all good? Do you think factory workers have it good anytime let alone the last few months
Also i have mentioned the concessions multiple times the person likely referred to and you have not taken notice once, I know these exsist as I have worked in nhs and have family that still do

@NotPersephone

3% is enough. Bad optics to give more when people are languishing on waiting lists and can’t see a GP.

My DH comfortably earns six figures as a consultant and doesn’t need 3% more. Interestingly he didn’t do a single one of the things in @blossomtoes hyperbolic post either.

However I would rather an incrementally larger increase had gone to lower grades.

Oh why do you think they might be languishing on waiting lists and not able to see a GP??? Ooh maybe because there aren’t enough staff or resources?! So giving them an unattractive pay deal will help with that how exactly?

And my dh is a consultant and works his fucking socks off and has watched colleagues die from catching Covid whilst wearing inadequate PPE. He also takes home less money now than he did 10 years ago, due to pay freezes and increased pension contributions.

@OdetoMyFamily

I work 37.5 hrs per week condensed into 3 shifts, yes so I get 4 days off but God do I need them

Indeed but plenty of people work long shifts - without shift allowances - and don't get 4 days off to recover.

Of course as a midwife you will see women die and heartbreaking still births. But the majority of NHS staff won't - that was my point in reply to a pp.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing

You don't actually care about non NHS workers but you expect them to be up in arms about you. On your salary (and benefits) you're not being abused. Your working hours are the problem. And the cost of living. If only you had a powerful union ...

Who are you to say what I care about. How patronising. I was trying to point out how this pay offer will be intrinsically linked to staff retention. Alongside our woeful working conditions this pay offer will seal the deal for a lot of NHS workers and they will vote with their feet. The public will then be left with longer waiting times, less specialists and an overall even poorer service than is on offer now. Please do not come on here and tell me what I care about. You have NO clue.

I don’t expect to get paid loads in the NHS but it has always been a bugbear of mine the nhs is the worst of the public sector professions in terms of pay in relation to qualifications and experience. We get the least amount of holidays, the worst maternity package ( eg civil servants get a years full pay) and the worst pension. I just want us brought up to the level of other public sector workers really. The only people that get paid well in the nhs are non clinical. Clinical staff are kept down because there is very little competition in this country to go elsewhere, nhs has a monopoly on this type of profession. Whereas say you are an accountant working for the nhs they know they have to pay you a level of pay that is reasonably competitive with other industries.

@Bufferingkisses but your also trying to appeal and have public on your side who will be doing much worse jobs for less pay and poor conditions
Yes in some cases an it officer could leabe the nhs and find a better private sector role but then again they could also get a worse deal as private sector only has to offer 28 days hols inc bank hols , stat sick pay etc so whilst some do offer better , many do not and I have noticed even less offering now as job hunting and companies that gave a little now are not

[quote NotPersephone]@Blossomtoes do tell me how an inflation-busting pay rise would make your relative’s working life all better? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I imagine a 12.55% increase plus pension contribution increase (plus the fact that they’ll still be demanding more for the insatiable maw in a year’s time) would put about 40p on the £ in IT. We all happy with that? Done the maths? [/quote]
It wouldn’t. A highly skilled ITU nurse has now applied for a 9 to 5 outpatient clinic role because she’s had enough. On the same pay.

My description of her pandemic was purely in response to someone from another planet maintaining some people in the private sector had it worse.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@MissyB1 then why are the only voicea we here about the payrise ?
We need the unions loud about the rest and a reform of nhs is long overdue
It seems they have to do a 3% rise for all when it would be better targeted as in my area nhs admin pays a lot better than private admin with better perks . And drs / consultants can be on very good money and a lot do half nhs / half private[/quote]
The unions do shout loud about the rest of the issues, but the media and the public aren’t interested!
Consultants have to work full time for the NHS and do private in their own time - certainly in our local Trust and I’m pretty sure that’s the same in most Trusts.

The only ones who could do part time are those who have retired but still provide a few days to the NHS. They are usually asked to come back - as recruitment is so difficult.

@ChainJane

3% seems pretty generous to me considering many people in the private sector are getting nothing at all. The BBC report I read said the average nurse would be getting an extra thousand a month because of it.

NHS staff are in the fortunate position that their jobs are never going to be made redundant, a comfort few employees have these days.

So the average nurse is on £400,000 per year? Did those figures not strike you as unlikely when you were writing your post?

@Blossomtoes but some will have it worse ? You can't know what someone else has had to put up with or is going through.
Surely its not a competition is it ?

@worriedatthemoment I agree there needs to be an overhaul of nurses hours. The days when junior doctors did 100hrs a week have long gone. Why 12 hour shift patterns?

It's to minimise the time spent handing over patients and provide consistency of care to patients. Its hugely time consuming, imagine if your nurses and doctors worked 6 hour shifts and had to hand over all the patients 4 times every 24 hours? The amount of time spent updating the next shift would be inefficient. In addition, it's to facilitate that this is a 24 hour a day job and there needs to be a way to manage staffing around the clock, shorter shifts would mean shift changes at times of night when there is little/no public transport available, making it costly and difficult for staff to get to work.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Blossomtoes but some will have it worse ? You can't know what someone else has had to put up with or is going through.
Surely its not a competition is it ?

[/quote]
No, it’s not a competition so take that up with @DanniDuck who started it, not me.

@MissyB1 wel. Ot sure that os true here as my consultant seemed to work 2 days nhs and 3 days in private clinic ?
And yes public do hear but you also have to remember its the same for a lot of us at times , especially at the moment people have lost jobs, business and homes .

Carycy

I do think NHS staff should be getting the same holidays and maternity leave as civil servants. That makes no sense and should be aligned.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland did it not work like this before ?
Plus some on here who are nhs are saying shifts are too long? So its like many things it suits some but nor others

many MANY people have had a far worse time over this past 15-16 months, and been through a LOT more shit than any of the NHS workers
Not really interested in the debate whether 3% is reasonable, but would like to know who has had it much worse than the staff who had to cope with treating covid patients. I believe NHS workers were the highest percentage of covid deaths considering all professions. So who is it that had it so much worse in the last 15 months?

@Thedogscollar how can your take home not have changed in 10 years as if nothing else we have also had tax band changed which means increases and also have you not gone up any bands or are you same as started? And not had any rises in 10'years at all ?

@vivainsomnia and maybe those staff should of been rewarded as many in nhs would of not gone near a covid patient
But prison officers, poilCemen, teachers, firefighters , supermarket all faced public day by day
I know several nhs workers who worked from home throughout, so maybe a one off bonus would of been better for those on the frontline

@NotPersephone

Oh why do you think they might be languishing on waiting lists and not able to see a GP??? Ooh maybe because there aren’t enough staff or resources?! So giving them an unattractive pay deal will help with that how exactly?

Lack of GP’s was caused in part by their fabulous pensions launching them into pensions supertax land last year, making it more profitable to retire than work. 🙄

If resources are limited then spaffing the NHS budget on giving already well-paid people more cash is insane. You can have all the largesse you want in a system that isn’t publicly funded - a publicly funded system means rationing for the patient and pay restraint for employees. But it’s abhorrent that the patient sucks up ever more rationing so that people like DH and me can buy a fourth house - we don’t need it. Happy he seems to have better insight on this issue than many doctors - perhaps because he trained outside the NHS.

You are and your Dh are not typical of our Consultant friends at all. We have one house which the mortgage won’t be paid off until Dh can retire at 67. I don’t know or care how you both made all that money to be able to afford multiple properties but stop giving the false impression that all Doctors are in that position.

And a lack of GPs and hospital staff (I notice you didn’t mention that particularly dangerous shortage), means worse care for patients. How would you address that then? Conscription perhaps?!

@vivainsomnia also each individual would of had it different Some in nhs would of not had it so bad , for many it would of been horrendous
It wasn't great for many care workers and for 150000 people etc they lost loved ones, some have lost houses , jobs etc
If you look at it as a whole some in the nhs had it worse on an individual level that could be very different

@MissyB1 remind me what a consultant or gp earns for nhs please ?

@MissyB1 I just looked it up and says between £80-100000 a year that should buy a nice house on a 25 year mortgage