How to talk to son about thoughts of identifying as a girl

[SummerBreeze1980]

I'm worrying a lot about this and just don't know how to approach it/what to do for the best. Things seem so different from when I was a teen.

About 3 months ago my DS (14) was on a trip with his best friend. While he was there he sent me a message 'I think I might be trans' and then immediately deleted it but I had already seen it. Tbh I thought him or his friend were just messing around and so I replied 'Shall I call you [girls version of his name]? He replied saying 'Actually I like Izzy' (not actual name)

When he got back from the trip I gently broached the subject and asked if that was how he really felt. He said yes but also he wasn't sure. I asked who knew about his feelings and it was only his best friend. He asked me not to tell his dad which I agreed to. His dad isn't prejudiced but he can be a bit blunt and a bit dismissive. Also his grandmother might then hear about it and she is very prejudiced.

Anyway, I told him I was glad he told me and he could talk to me about it anytime. He was very quiet and it seemed a difficult subject for him to talk about. Well, since then he's not brought it up but has seemed pretty happy although increasingly likes spending time in his room at home. Can be a bit withdrawn, eating and sleeping lots. Typical teen behaviour I guess.

Then a week or so ago his dad was over and he started talking about puberty and how our DS's voice is breaking and how he was turning into a man. I noticed my DS put his hands over his ears. I wondered if it was because of these feelings. A few days later I asked him if he was still having those feelings about being a girl and he said yes. I talked a bit about how his feelings were completely valid and I would support him no matter what. I also spoke about society's stereotypes of masculine/feminine and you could still be a boy and like feminine things etc. I also reiterated he could speak to me anytime. Again it was a really awkward conversation, he was very quiet and hardly spoke.

I want to give him the right support but I have no idea what that is. I can't talk to anyone about it as he wants me to keep it between us and it just means my worries go round and round in my head. I worry that he is worried about it, that it is making life hard for him. I want to help him to feel better about it. I just don't know how. I don't know whether these thoughts come from a feeling inside or from relating to friends. For context he has a friendship group of 4 (including him). His best friend is a girl who identifies as gay and the other 2 are girls who identify as boys. I'm not sure if this is relevant or not. Also he is Autistic again not sure if that is relevant but not to drip feed. Oh and he is home-educated but mixes with lots of other DC although this has of course been restricted due to Covid.

Any advice welcome!

@Maggiesfarm - oh, yes I wouldn't be thinking about doing anything about it as such. I just don't want him to be alone with these confusing thoughts.

@Cardboardboxingring - thank you so much for sharing that. It makes a lot of sense and very reassuring.

Just to say I'm feeling in a much more positive and stronger place to support my DS after looking at all the resources suggested by posters. It seems like another facet of dealing with adolescence nowadays.

On a separate note I'm looking at some days out with the DC now Covid restrictions are easing. Feel like we've been nowhere for so long! Only to find I have a teenager who doesn't want to come out to the usual places...the beach, farm, roller skating etc. I've said he can bring a friend with him or have friends over to do something. It's a whole new world!

@SummerBreeze1980 Glad it's going better today! Also glad your teen has friends to hang out with - some teens and children over this last year seem to have become very isolated, which must exacerbate MH issues. If you take a look at the feminism boards on here, I think you'll find other mums who've had/are having these experiences with teens and lots of support!

@beastlyslumber - thank you I'll have a look on the feminism board.

Snap. I have an autistic 15 year old son who is homeschooled (actually at internet school) and identifies as pansexual, general fluid and a furry.

I have confiscated all his tech. I had all sorts of blocks but he is far more techy than me and works around them. This was not because of the identity issues but because he was accessing extremely inappropriate content.

I am now looking for a counsellor that addresses ASD and identity.

I should have looked but maybe NAS can help? Tbh I am scared to look

Do you think he might be gay, and in a world which assumes heterosexual as the “norm” (the jargon is “heteronormative “) he thinks that is he is attracted to boys that means he must really be a girl?

I’d recommend Gendpect - it’s an organisation set up by parents in exactly your situation, and their main public representative is a man called Angus Fox, who’s a child safeguarding expert.

Genspect

Genspect, (not Gendpect) - fat fingers!

There’s heaps of resources on the Genspect website, including a discussion between a child psychotherapist and mothers of trans-identifying boys.

I've also been pointed to the feminist board but personally I'm already GC and this doesn't help. The SN board are very supportive but can't offer practical experience and advice.

I feel lost.

This is the consequence of excluding ASD kids from ss (because of funding) and excluding from m/s (because of funding).

@KOKOagainandagain I was thinking more that other parents have posted on there about similar situations with their kids. Genspect and Transgender Trend could both be helpful - someone might be able to refer you to an appropriate service or resource. Really hope you can get some support.

Yep. Agree with previous posters. My dd probably has asd (but no diagnosis). As she started going through puberty she really struggled with her changing body and identity. Did the whole thing of cutting her hair, wearing baggy trousers, etc. Worryingly she was looking up breast binding on the internet and worse... I was supportive in that I let her get on with it but we also had conversations about gender stereotypes etc. Two years later she is a completely different person, happy being a woman but also knowing she can just be herself.

@KOKOagainandagain - I'm sorry to hear that. Can I ask how you know he is accessing inappropriate stuff. I did ask his SW about parental controls but she said they were no good for teens as they know how to get around them. What is NAS,?

@ShortBacknSides - it's always a possibility but I thought kids nowadays saw being gay as completely normal? I'll have a look at Genspect, thanks

@Notcontent - that's lovely that she can just be herself.

NAS is national autistic society. I know he was accessing inappropriate stuff because I snooped when he had gone to his dads but left his computer on. Didn't delete his browser history. Some may think it was invasion of privacy but I think it's safeguarding.

I am his carer. Literally. I receive CA because he has DLA. He has a f/t EHCP, can't attend school and has a bespoke package via PB.

This is not a case of an NT young man resisting being gay.

I raised concerns with the LA at his recent annual review but they won't touch it with a barge pole.

Thank you for answering. I mean thank goodness you did have look! But it is tricky that line between respecting their privacy and safeguarding. I wish his SW would support me more with this. He's a bit of a golden boy to her so she seems to gloss over any concerns.

UPDATE

I just wanted to give an update as to where we are and continue a bit with this really informative thread, if possible.

So since I wrote this post I've had a good few conversations with my DS. I started by talking to him about why many women do not believe that 'transwomen are women'. His view was that transwomen are women but they are not female. I was so worried as it seemed he had read a lot on the topic and also though puberty blockers just 'paused' puberty and I was really worried and felt he might feel influenced to want to do all sorts of things as only 14. He thought that most teens who identified as the opposite gender stayed that way and didn't change their minds etc.

However, I then started talking about women-only spaces and was relieved that he believed these should remain as female only spaces and trans-women should have their own spaces. I talked to him about the CEO of the Edinburgh rape centre disagreeing about women being able to ask for a female to do an examination on them and he completely disagreed with this and felt the CEOs stance was way too extreme. He didn't think most trans-women have these extremist views.

He told me he finds it difficult when people talk about him turning into a man and also that he would like to wear more female clothes. I asked what was holding him back but he said he didn't know. I told him I was quite happy to take him on a shopping trip if he wanted (I actually said it would be fun as I think boys clothes for his age group are so boring!) or to give him some money to go shopping with his friends.I feel for him so much because he obviously finds it so very difficult to talk about.

Finally, just wondering if someone can tell me anything more about the Autism link with trans?

It sounds as though he’s uncomfortable with masculinity more than anything. Can you talk to him about all the gender non-conforming men and women over the centuries? Starting with women cyclists who wore Bloomers, or divided skirts in the 1850s, or the suffragettes, or male pop stars such as Boy George.

Or show him pictures of hippy men wearing velvet and satin in the 1970s. I was a teenager then and they were everywhere.

it’s such a pity that such male role models don’t exist - it’s all hyper masculine and that can shift into a toxic version of what it is to be a man.

Of course that must be uncomfortable. Could he be fired up by social justice to change that notion of what it is to be a man?

Michael Conroy runs really good workshops on this. I think it’s called The Man Box. He works with young men I think you can find him on Twitter.

@ShortBacknSides - yes, I think this is definitely at least part of it. He has never been a 'macho' boy if you can use that word for a boy. He didn't really like the rough and tumble that lots of boys like. He has had long hair most of his life but would tell people who questioned it that 'boys can have long hair too'.I brought him up to play with any toys he wants not just typical 'boy' toys.

I will try to have a chat about 'gender non-conforming'. Thanks for the ideas and resources. I feel that this is the place he is in currently. There doesn't seem to be a great desire to actually be seen as a girl on a daily basis. This is why I think letting him explore the idea of wearing some 'girls' clothes might be enough for him to feel happier in his self.

I think this is part of the issue with the current regression back to what seem to be quite rigid sex stereotypes in the last 20 years (neo-liberalism in action, I think). It's so binary - if you don't want to be a "masculine" man then you must be a girl ... instead of questioning what it is to be a boy or man.

The US feminist writer bell hooks (she doesn't use capitals for her name) has started to say a LOT about this. Her stuff is often on YouTube, and it moves me to tears to hear her talk about men & love. Here's a video in which she says some very powerful stuff about men & patriarchy:

She's an extraordinary woman, and a hero of mine. Maybe your son could be inspired by her?

And here's a very recent conversation between Michael Conroy & Julian Vigo (Michael Conroy is a bit of a hero of mine):

savageminds.substack.com/p/michael-conroy

@ShortBacknSides - thank you so much for those videos. I agree the stereotypes are so rigid nowadays - if you like long hair and pierced ears you must be a girl. It goes against everything many parents have tried to instill in their DC.

Oh and also we have planned a day to go out shopping. I'm going to try and make it really fun - I'll treat him to his favourite Boba tea and a nice lunch. As well as having a look for some clothes if he wants I said we could have a look for any hair products or face cleansers etc he would like. I've framed it as a nice day out for just us and getting some things he might need as he's a teenager now.

Step 1.... Don't ask mumsnet. And definitely don't read "irreversible damage" It is hateful garbage.

Step 2. See if there are any local LGBTQ+ youth organisations. I know your son doesn't want to talk to anyone about it at the moment, but with some gentle encouragement from the right place, he might.

Even if you just speak to the organisation yourself, they will have ideas on how you can broach it (and they will be better informed than the people on this foreum).

I am ina very similar situation, I'm very GC, (and I'm just ignoring the posts on here by users who are pushing their own trans agenda, for whatever reason).

DD is possibly ASD, 11, coming to terms with my separation from her dad, her female role models, me included, are mostly mums who she's seen do the grunt work of a relationship, she's just started periods, she's coming to terms with her changing body...and this week, she thinks she's trans...last week she wanted to buy a pretty pink dress, have her ears pierced, etc...she's not into traditional boy things, she's alternative, she's a bit emo, a bit gothy, as I was at that age....she's not in any way trans. I'd be fine with it if she were, or if she liked girls, or boys who think they are girls, or whatever...I really don't care...but all this started with her anxiety increasing, her sense of being not quite right in her body, being a bit of a geek etc...it's just her way of labelling herself, fitting in.

I've told her I love her regardless, I've taken her to the GP and she's been referred to CAMHS, unfortunately they won't look at the concern I have about ASD or possibly ADD because she's 'good' at school, and bright...plus they e barely been there and she's moving up to secondary...but it's just bloody social media and the internet and her friends...I'm hoping that by being open with her, trying to get her help with dealing with her emotions, trying not to get annoyed or het up about it all, she'll just find her place and forget about it all. I wish her life were less complicated but I think it's just the times we live in. It boils my piss to hear all the shit that gets thrown about though, the whole trans thing is a tiny minority of people but to be GC is seen as such a bad thing, when in reality no one I know in real life buys into it...and I know a whole range of people, from all walks of life...the majority agree it's bullshit, just be who you want to be, girl, boy, doesn't mean if you're a girl who likes girls and more masculine things you're automatically a bloody boy..🤦

And definitely don't read "irreversible damage" It is hateful garbage.

It most certainly is not. This sounds like 'everyone I don't like is Hitler' hyperbole.

A lot of stuff online especially social media won't be good, especially if his view is that females deserve female only spaces. If he goes to a group setting with that view also he might find himself being told he's wrong, or a bigot, or 'helpfully' re-educated.

OP, sounds like you're a great mum and doing fine on your own. Exploring feelings and encouraging critical thinking while being supportive, taking him shopping, all sounds good to me.