To call a cleaner a cleaner

[ChilliChoco]

I was hoping to have a new cleaner start working on my house tomorrow- just 3 hours in a semi.
I found her through my previous cleaner who is semi retiring.
I messaged the new one today and asked her to bring id e.g a passport. I said by way of explanation, that I always ask cleaners for this as they are in my home and sometimes by themselves.
She called me 2 minutes later and was livid.
She was so upset that I had called her a cleaner and so I asked what she would refer herself as in English. (She is Polish so I thought it could be a translation issue). She said a housekeeper. I said I had never referred to a cleaner as a housekeeper. I would not mind calling her that of course.

However she was more angry by the fact that I had asked for ID. She didn't really let me explain but said she wanted to see my passport if I wanted to see hers. I did try and say cleaners have never had a problem with that (except one about 7 years ago). Anyway she said she was glad she found out what kind of person I was and she didn't want to work for me.
She then texted me to say I should
delete her number. I have actually blocked her.

in order to retain thread, MNHQ removed small paragraph as potentially disablist and in any case hearsay

YABU to call someone who cleans a cleaner and should not ask for id

YANBU to call someone who cleans a cleaner and can ask for id as normal practice

I've done domestic cleaning in the past. I'm a Cleaner. There's no shame attached to the word for me. In fact of the jobs I have had, it was my absolute favourite job to do (previously managed large departments and the associated stress) I mainly did big swanky houses, rarely saw the owners and I really like cleaning - win win. I also had a few ladies who were disabled and unable to do more than a basic clean, I loved these jobs the most because I was really helping and in these specific instances, I was a social addition to their day as well.

We had a DBS and also recent references, these were updated yearly.

I think it's odd to ask for ID. Espdcially a passport.

So do people just let someone into the home without having confirmed who the person is?

I will be honest here🙈 I am here mainly because I will be soon looking for a cleaner so I am curious about how this works.

@SchrodingersImmigrant
If it’s a cleaner you are looking for - ask around locally and go with recommendations. I don’t think you can beat getting someone who is known locally both as a person and as a professional. Then ask for insurance, proof of address if you want, if they are self employed and not from a company.

Thank you!

I have a friend who is a house sitter who looks after homes while the owners are away on holiday or business. She does do some cleaning but also other work such as looking after pets, accepting deliveries, and making various arrangements for when the owners return. She refers to herself as the "housekeeper" when she introduces herself to locals.

She doesn’t have a right to work here hint the reaction
A cleaner is a cleaner, I recently took on a cleaning job

@rosalie11

She doesn’t have a right to work here hint the reaction A cleaner is a cleaner, I recently took on a cleaning job

How can you possibly know this? Since she is originally from Poland chances are she already has Settled Status / British citizenship (and therefore permission to work in the UK) or will qualify for Settled Status if she applies.

As a private cleaner I don’t know why you’d get upset being called one. A housekeeper in my eyes is someone who makes beds and tidied up toys and all the other crap people leave out (which I don’t do.)
I’ve never been asked for ID though and I’m not sure how id feel about that if I’m honest. I think I’d be happy with showing you but not you taking a photocopy or whatever

Overall YANBU. However, to give some colour on what she may have felt -

1. I'm from her part of the world and I left the UK about 3 years ago partly because I was sick of being looked at as a parasite in English society (in spite of being highly educated and paying 60k in taxes each year) so she may have reached the end of her tether. She probably thought asking her for her passport is because you are suspicious of Polish people. I lived in London for 10 years and it never crossed my mind to ask to see my cleaner's passports. But I can see why you would and you are not wrong. She was too defensive.
2. in my native language, we have different words for different types of cleaners. The word for domestic cleaner is closer to housekeeper so I can see why she may have taken it the wrong way (not saying she's right but I understand where she's coming from).

All in all, it's best that it didn't work out.

@JackieCollinshasnoauthority

I would call her a cleaner but I wouldn't ask for a passport as it doesn't offer you any security against theft or other issues.

Yes it does. It confirms the name of the person and they are who they say they are, so if they do steal something and then disappear into thin air, you have something to tell the police. You know who did it. Otherwise you might never find them again...

@Sandinmyknickers it doesn’t confirm your address. Only that you look like a bad picture and nationality. Drivers licence would be much better as it has an address. Still
Doesn’t stop anyone doing a flit.
Also the address given may not be where they are living. A lot of people forget to update their address and a proportion of society use care of address or a mailbox or post box address.

[quote Bargebill19]@ChilliChoco. A dbs proves they haven’t got a criminal record. They are quite easy to get.
Standard DBS check
This is a check of your criminal record which will show details of all spent and unspent convictions, cautions, reprimands and final warnings held on central police records (apart from protected convictions and cautions).

A passport proves you look like a bad photo and which country you come from.[/quote]
No a passport proves your identity. A DBS isn't necessary. It's not about a criminal history. It's frustrating how many posters are missing the point.
The cleaner would have keys to the house. If she steals from the OP and then disappears unto thin air, the OP can't turn up to the police station saying " well she said her name was Sandra and here's a random, probably now disconnected mobile number

Passport, driving licence, national ID...just anything that proves you are who you say you are is all that's needed. No need to go delving into someone's criminal history...although if they are willing to provide it, great. But seems a bit OTT when all OP is trying to establish is that they are genuine, or at least she knows who to pursue if not!

@Sandinmyknickers
The op was worried about theft. A lot of cleaners have a dbs already. A dbs shows an criminal record.
Nothing else proves you live where it states on a drivers lockers, and a passport just proves name and nationality.
Non of it helps in reality. Personal recommendations, or going through an insured company and some trust is the best you can hope for.

[quote Bargebill19]@Sandinmyknickers it doesn’t confirm your address. Only that you look like a bad picture and nationality. Drivers licence would be much better as it has an address. Still
Doesn’t stop anyone doing a flit.
Also the address given may not be where they are living. A lot of people forget to update their address and a proportion of society use care of address or a mailbox or post box address.[/quote]
OP is asking if she was unreasonable to ask for a passport (and calk her a cleaner)
I think the fact in whether or not it is 100%watertight is beside the point. It's the bare minimum form of protection and its not unreasonable to ask. To ask for tons more details as if you're vetting someone for high security including proof that the address is most recent, a dbs can be provided, maybe would be a tad unreasonable.... and I can understand the cleaner being upset if a passport was not viewed as enough. But that's not the case here

It is partially the point. You are all thinking that these documents will protect you - they won’t. A passport won’t give you what you are wanting - something or take to the police, hence saying ask for drivers License even though that may not be up to date. Worried about theft - ask for a dbs. As a pp said ask for her indemnity insurance cover.
It’s not asking for tons more detail. It’s asking for the right details.

Clean dbs doesn't mean though the person doesn't steal.
I can see the point of the id better

The insurance is good shout yeah

This is nuts! Cleaning lady is nuts! You had a lucky escape as she showed she had something to hide and a difficult personality. Block her and move on to find a reasonable cleaning person.

You aren't employing her as a housekeeper you are looking for a cleaner- they are different roles.

And as an employer - even if she is self employed- you have a duty to ensure she is who she says she is and can work and either has HMRC self employed status (you have to go through website with her, she has to demonstrate) or you are employing her direct. So many rules that ppl don't look into,

Hmrc are quite clear on that. Passport is the way to go, at the start, DBS is only about whether she has a disclosable criminal history that might prevent her from working with vulnerable people.

Lots of ppl on AIBU don't know employment legislation.
It is mind boggling how much ppl don't realise they are culpable if she isn't registers as self employed and doesn't pay tax,

I'd have asked for photo ID rather than a passport specifically. I can see how if someone's not British, they could read more into you asking for a passport than you might realise.

If I was getting a new cleaner, I'd ask for photo ID and proof of address. The DBS for a cleaner is barely worth having.

@Notwavingbutdrowing3

This is nuts! Cleaning lady is nuts! You had a lucky escape as she showed she had something to hide and a difficult personality. Block her and move on to find a reasonable cleaning person.

You aren't employing her as a housekeeper you are looking for a cleaner- they are different roles.

And as an employer - even if she is self employed- you have a duty to ensure she is who she says she is and can work and either has HMRC self employed status (you have to go through website with her, she has to demonstrate) or you are employing her direct. So many rules that ppl don't look into,

Hmrc are quite clear on that. Passport is the way to go, at the start, DBS is only about whether she has a disclosable criminal history that might prevent her from working with vulnerable people.

Lots of ppl on AIBU don't know employment legislation.
It is mind boggling how much ppl don't realise they are culpable if she isn't registers as self employed and doesn't pay tax,

Do you do this too when you call a plumber / gardener / builder to your house to do some work? When you take your dog to the vet's or get your nails done? Because very often these services are provided by self-employed people too, who you're not "employing" but contracting by the way.

@ichundich exactly. But apparently we don’t know about employment law.

@saraclara. There are a lot of cleaning positions where you have to have a dbs, sometimes basic, sometimes standard and quite a few an enhanced dbs. It is very much worth having. Or would you prefer people such as teachers, social workers, carers do not have dbs checks either?

I'm finding this interesting as I worked as a nanny for years, and pretty much every family I ever worked for also had a cleaner or housekeeper. I'd never given much thought to the difference, but I thinks it's as others have said, the ones who do bed stripping and remaking, or ironing, or other non-cleaning activities were the ones who went by housekeeper, and tended not to be with agencies but self-employed. I was offered a nanny/housekeeper job once but they wanted to do it cash in hand, in this case officially employ me and pay the maximum you can before tax starts and the rest under the table. Definitely a bad idea!

I think to some the title housekeeper is more prestigious, and that goes for the employer too. It always pissed me right off when people called me an au-pair, but I think the nanny/au-pair difference is bigger. The only time I ever got snarky though was when introduced as 'working as a baby-sitter'. That one had to be corrected!

She sounds incredibly dodgy! Of course, you should ask for ID if you pay for someone to be regularly in your house to clean. And she is a cleaner. A housekeeper does a far wider range of work. I would wonder if she is still legally allowed to stay in this country. And if someone shouted at me and behaved in such a manner, I might be tempted to pass on their details to the home office in case she does not have settled status. I am not from the UK but have settled status and paid my taxes, done jury service etc. Besides questionable status, I would wonder if this person isn't working without paying tax if she is this OTT about being asked to provide ID.

Just to digress, I call myself a cleaner but I also make beds, iron and tidy toys away, time permitting.

I call myself a cleaner.