To ask for DD to be excused from this?

[TravellingSpoon]

DD is in secondary school and this week they will be dissecting chicken wings, not a demonstration, each child is supposed to have their own and will do it as a whole class task.

DD is a vegetarian (her choice) and is really not happy about doing it and has asked that I ask for her to be excused from it, but is worried that she will be made to sit in isolation for that lesson which is a fate worse than death.

AIBU to ask for DD to be excused from the lesson?

If DD has no interest in any of the life sciences and would be happy to work through every day compromises, accepting the inconveniences specifc to being veggie, then she'll be fine.

But again, why does being veggie impact on pursuing a career in the life sciences? I'm not aware that you need to eat meat in order to work in these fields?

As for the health issues, if you eat a properly balanced vegetarian diet, it's perfectly possible to get the nutrients that you need. The fact that you didn't manage to get the balance right really doesn't mean that others won't.

I don't really know what other "inconveniences specific to being veggie" you are talking about. The only thing specific to being veggie is not eating meat/meat products, which many people don't find inconvenient at all, but each to their own!

In an era of 3d printing etc, it's utterly ridiculous that animals are being slaughtered for this. I stood my ground back in year dickety doo over a luckless frog and put him out of the window before I could be stopped, and took a harsh punishment for it. My kids refused one after another but thankfully were met with more understanding..
As long as your DD has made an informed and rational choice understanding what it might affect exams wise, she has every right to say no.
If she honestly thinks being in isolation is the bigger deal here, then she doesn't feel that strongly about the morality and shouldn't pretend otherwise. Good luck.

She has every right to be excused. I refused to participate in animal
Dissection in science and I was at school a very long time ago!

As I said. Never mind. You win.

The ethics and philosophy that often accompany vegetarianism has absolutely no impact.

The specific impacts I considered are of no interest to anyone and anyway are not specific to vegetarians.

Is that better?

Oh, and the health issue I have isn't down to my choices or poor food management.

Should any vegetarian or vegan be diagnosed with any form of anemia they will have to make changes. Unfortunately for me megaloblastic and pernicious anaemia on top of ME meant that I was in serious danger of incurring irreversible neurological damage, premature death. Really, no hyperbole, just a medical fact.

Which is why it is essential that an informed decision is made and nobody pretends not to understand that.

I have a friend who is a research scientist in immunology, not sure if that counts as a life science. Being vegetarian doesn’t seem to be holding him back.

YANBU I am a science teacher and often dissect hearts, lungs, kidneys etc and I always have a couple that don’t want to take part even if they’re not vegetarian as it makes them feel sick - which is no problem and I’m happy for them to be excused.
Tell her not to feel embarrassed or anything as there will be other things that her classmates opt out of too one day.

Pernicious anemia is actually a great reason to give up eating animal products IMO, B12 is the only nutrient you can’t get from vegan food so if you can’t absorb it from food anyway there’s no need for meat.

So anyone who doesn't eat a live chicken isn't supporting animal cruelty? Watching abusive pornography isn't supporting an abusive industry because it's not happening as you watch it?

They're not just collecting dead chickens who died from old age

You quoted me above this reply, frootloop, but perhaps you meant it to someone else?

If not, I'm not really sure of your point. The chickens (prior to) being dissected are no more, they have ceased to be, bereft of life, they rest in peace- they are ex-chickens. They feel no pain.

I'd support my child in asking their teacher to opt out. If I needed to send in a letter or email saying I supported that, okay, but I wouldn't be making the first request (I would help them write an email to the teacher if they wanted my help).

I'd also support the school if they said my child had to observe or otherwise stay in the classroom or sit in isolation (which I've not heard of schools doing) or whatever the policy was for it whether or not my child liked that. Principled actions in life often have unpleasant consequences, and she won't know what the choice is until she asks.

The first high school I went to tried to sell our dissecting flowers as a way to include vegetarian and vegan students, not sure how truthful that was though or if other schools do that.

@PattyPan

Pernicious anemia is actually a great reason to give up eating animal products IMO, B12 is the only nutrient you can’t get from vegan food so if you can’t absorb it from food anyway there’s no need for meat.

Sadly it's the mix that made that impossible for me. So I am now a low meat eater and felt the benefits in days. And that's after relying on B12 injections and now the tablet 'overdose'.

I didn't do it in a whim. I was more than happy being vegetarian from aged 8 to mid 40s and had no thoughts of not continuing to be. But when a consultant gives you the relevant literature to read and his best advice you'd be daft to ignore it based on anyone else's opinion based on their personal preferences.

I would go with the posters who say let her be in the room and observe rather than sit in isolation. The are too many kids who think meat comes from "the supermarket" and do not appreciate about animal produce. He rviews as a vegetarian should be respected. At the same time its important that she develop a realistic appreciation of where animal products some from and what the food chain involves.

I think the child perhaps has greater issues to address then being vegetarian, if sitting out of one lesson is a fate worse than death. And also worse than sitting in the class observing something new and interesting.

I'm very much on the side of not mollycoddling kids or pretending that real life doesn't exist or matter. Or that their own, immature, developing thoughts and fads make them more important than and different to everyone else, and deserving of special attention.

Had we not gone so far down this path our culture would be in a much better place and the whole woke nightmare would not be as prevalent.

Why are you asking for her? She's the one in school.
Actually she should say she's not doing it, rather than asking for permission. If she asked for permission they would have the option to say no.
She has strong principles and now is the time for her to practice standing up for them. No need for you to get involved at all.

@DelphiniumBlue

Why are you asking for her? She's the one in school. Actually she should say she's not doing it, rather than asking for permission. If she asked for permission they would have the option to say no. She has strong principles and now is the time for her to practice standing up for them. No need for you to get involved at all.

Strong principles, or a strong sense of drama? She wants to avoid the possibility of sitting in isolation as it would be "a fate worse than death", rather than defend her principles at all costs I'm inclined to agree with Lucking's summing up.

She's not going to eat it, so I don't know why it makes a difference that she's a vegetarian. However I managed to do my science GCSEs and two science A levels without ever dissecting anything as far as I remember, it's a bit unnecessary and I don't think she'll be the only one who doesn't want to do it.

@Laserbird16

Why not discuss it with her teacher.

I don't want to isn't a reason I could support as this an educational activity but surely there is an acceptable alternative. Why can't she observe? Could she draw and label a diagram. I'm sure the teacher would be happy to discuss

You're minimising her beliefs.

Are you always so dismissive?

@negomi90

I'm a veggie and I would encourage her to be in the room for it, even if she doesn't want to touch the meat. Not approving of something shouldn't stop you learning about it and there is so much learning from that.

There is no need to dissect animals at all.

Plenty of teaching visuals already available.

She's not going to eat it, so I don't know why it makes a difference that she's a vegetarian.

Really? You really don't know there is more to vegetarianism than simply not eating meat? Really?

@a8mint

Even in the 1980s you could opt out

Just what I was going to say.

@PersonaNonGarter

You don’t want to be the kind of person who doesn’t do this. She should be in the room at least.

It’s a bit ‘special, special’ not to take part in an actual science class.

What?

The kind of person that had morals?

Oh god that would be awful wouldn't it 🙄

"She's not going to eat it, so I don't know why it makes a difference that she's a vegetarian"

Because she has an ethical objection to the animal being murdered for her to have a rummage. These animals don't appear magically. I don't know why people are cofused that a vegetarian wouldn't support cruelty to animals.

"You quoted me above this reply, frootloop, but perhaps you meant it to someone else?

If not, I'm not really sure of your point. The chickens (prior to) being dissected are no more, they have ceased to be, bereft of life, they rest in peace- they are ex-chickens. They feel no pain."

Well as I responded to your specific quote I think you know exactly who I was responding to. Don't be passive aggressive it's boring. You've also ignored my point. Do you understand why vegetarians don't eat meat, even though it's already dead?

Tell that to any wannabe vet or surgeon. Pathologist. Orthodontist. Medical specimen dissection, a prosector. Physical therapist. Embalmer.

Many more or less esoteric careers that society has need for.

All of which my vegetarian self would have considered but my vegetarian DSis would not.

It's all about being informed of the consequences of choices made.

@memberofthewedding

I would go with the posters who say let her be in the room and observe rather than sit in isolation. The are too many kids who think meat comes from "the supermarket" and do not appreciate about animal produce. He rviews as a vegetarian should be respected. At the same time its important that she develop a realistic appreciation of where animal products some from and what the food chain involves.

I'm assuming because she's a vegetarian she's exactly not that sort of child! So she doesn't need to be exposed to something like that. Also how the hell does one learn about the food chain from dissection??