To ask for DD to be excused from this?

[TravellingSpoon]

DD is in secondary school and this week they will be dissecting chicken wings, not a demonstration, each child is supposed to have their own and will do it as a whole class task.

DD is a vegetarian (her choice) and is really not happy about doing it and has asked that I ask for her to be excused from it, but is worried that she will be made to sit in isolation for that lesson which is a fate worse than death.

AIBU to ask for DD to be excused from the lesson?

@TakeYourFinalPosition

Will you ask for her to excused from every dissection?

We did a chicken wing, an eyeball, a fish, lamb lungs, a pig foetus and something else… or that’s all the ones I can remember! I hated doing most of them; have never liked the feel of meat, I hate eyes and fish make me feel sick, but I learned loads from them.

I've lived an entire 40 years without needing any kind of knowledge that can be gleaned from cutting up dead things. It's not life altering knowledge.

If your DD has an ethical concern about dissecting an animal for biology at school, of course you can ask for her to be excused stating that reason.
As long as she isn't planning to enter the medical or a related profession that may require these skills in biology, it shouldn't harm her.

@godmum56

Yes absolutely right that she should be able to choose but if the knowledge is part of the syllabus then she well have to learn it somehow.

Yes, how about from a diagram in a book? That's what we used to do.

You don't have to dissect something to learn how its skeleton is put together. There are so many resources available now that she doesn't need to participate if she doesn't want to.

In quite obvious ways. From restaurant choices to professions. It's not rocket science. As long as DD is informed and is making a choice based on full information then, like everyone else, she will be able to navigate them all.

Not obvious to me, I'm afraid. What professions would not be open to vegans/vegetarians if they chose them?

Actually perfectly reasonable to skip it if squeamish. I Faint if I have to watch stuff like that and indeed have fainted in a similar class. People think I'm exaggerating til they see it happen. It's no joke!

And by the way that's why I'm not a doctor but a lowly paid scientist instead!

I don’t think this is an appropriate activity and I’m quite surprised that schools would do this. I would support my child to object.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee I imagine it depends what type of career you want.

But I didn’t mean it as a criticism, it was a genuine question for OP - it probably won’t be a one off dissection, so there’s probably better things that can be arranged for her DD if she doesn’t want to do any of them. It was a whole module while I was at school, and a lot of the lessons between dissections were photos/videos of the dissections and lessons around them - you’d hope if she won’t be doing that, the school and OP could have a better plan than spending time in the library or whatever.

I was trying to be helpful, not critical, it may well be best for OPs DD not to do them.

@AlexaShutUp

anywhere that serves sells supplies meats ... perhaps ?

Being vegan/vegetarian doesn't stop you from working in those places, though. You might choose not to work in them, but your choice is no more restricted than anyone else's.

DD has grown up vegetarian and increasingly chooses vegan options for herself, but she handles meat at work. As long as she doesn't have to eat it, she doesn't really care if other people do and she doesn't mind cooking it for them. She can't afford to be squeamish tbh as she is aspiring to a career in medicine.

Unlike her mother who threw up in school when forced to dissect a sheep's eye.

I agree... 🌸

I'm a veggie and I would encourage her to be in the room for it, even if she doesn't want to touch the meat. Not approving of something shouldn't stop you learning about it and there is so much learning from that.

^This. I take it children can pick and choose what school activities they can take part in on moral grounds?

You could (and some parents do) say that about every single bit of every subject. No school trip or practical activity is 'necessary', they are about teaching kids a range of skill and building resilience and independence.

That’s up to the parents and kids to decide. If a school trip made my child uncomfortable, I wouldn’t send them. The only thing my kids have wanted to opt out of is dissection or cooking and preparing meat, both very resilient and independent, they just don’t want to cut up animals. Having principles and realising your parents will support your well thought out decisions can be just as beneficial to children as resilience and independence. My children seem to be coping with the world just fine, in fact better than most in the current climate.

I didn't take biology o level because I knew I'd have to cut something up. I had to do a non exam course and had to cut up a cows eye. I said I didn't want to. I was asked to sit at the back of the classroom while everyone else got on. If they'd said go to isolation, I'd have gone because it was the principle. If your daughter has a principle, she sbould be prepared to go to isolation. I never asked my mum for a note. I know you want to protect her but can't she fight her own battles? School is a good place to start finding your own feet.

I can’t tell from your post whether she really wants to opt out or if so why.
If she thinks it’s evil to cut up chickens, but is afraid of isolation for an hour or so, then encourage her to opt out. If it’s just a yuck thing, then encourage her to take part.

DS is vegetarian but I suspect he would chose to do it, rather than sit out. His logic being he wouldn't be saving any chickens lives by opting out.
I was a vegetarian and was allowed to opt out of this, 30 years ago for ethical reasons. I suspect her teacher will understand. I would email her science teacher now so they know in advance.

i'm a vegetarian and chose to be excused from dissecting a cow's heart in school. i'm also now a medical student, as dissecting a human body feels very different (totally consensual as these people had donated their bodies by choice). so if she doesn't want to, I think she shouldn't have to!

@drpet49

*I'm a veggie and I would encourage her to be in the room for it, even if she doesn't want to touch the meat. Not approving of something shouldn't stop you learning about it and there is so much learning from that.*

^This. I take it children can pick and choose what school activities they can take part in on moral grounds?

If they have strong ethical objections why on earth shouldn't they be able to abstain from some activities? Are children not allowed to have principles?

Dd is vegetarian and her class cut up a heart last term.All the dc were given the opportunity to opt out but she didn’t - as she said she wasn’t planning on eating it!
If your child doesn’t want to do it for whatever reason then they shouldn’t have to

Are children not allowed to have principles?
The wings are there, available, whether the pupils take part or just watch. They're not being slaughtered to order.

@GreyhoundG1rl

Are children not allowed to have principles? The wings are there, available, whether the pupils take part or just watch. They're not being slaughtered to order.

So? You could say the same about the burgers in the school canteen.

I was a vegetarian when heart dissections were being done in class at school. We vegetarians weren't made to do any dissecting but we were expected to be mature and to take a look at the dissected hearts, which I didn't have a problem with and found quite interesting. I'd expect the school to have a procedure in place for what they ask vegetarians to do in that class, it's a very common scenario.

From a resilience point of view she's going to come across meat, butchers, dead animals on the road and so on. I think it's good for resilience to be able to at least look at a dissection, and nothing else is quite equivalent in terms of learning. I went on to do an animal biology degree and dissected various body parts of various animals. Its gross, you feel yuck about doing it, but it is worth doing IMO.

The usual wind up trolls have found the thread. Best ignored.

@AlexaShutUp

In quite obvious ways. From restaurant choices to professions. It's not rocket science. As long as DD is informed and is making a choice based on full information then, like everyone else, she will be able to navigate them all.

Not obvious to me, I'm afraid. What professions would not be open to vegans/vegetarians if they chose them?

You seem to be choosing to misunderstand me.

The restrictions would ALL be based on DDs choices, preferences. Not that any would be closed to her because of them.

But I have noticed MN veggies/vegans do that a lot. Unlike those out here in real life.

When I was veggie - 30 years until it transpired I would be healthier eating some meat, I have about 12 syllables worth of anemia and being vegetarian exacerbated it. I chose to work as a cook. I cooked meat. DSis chose not to and so didn't want to join me.

That's what I mean by working from a base if knowledge - work out what you will and won't do based on your choices.

Was that simple enough?

So? You could say the same about the burgers in the school canteen.
What does that mean? Veggies just don't eat the burgers, they don't insist on eating in a different, burger free environment.

Watching someone else eat a burger is just life 🤷🏻‍♀️

@SupermanWithTheGreyHair

The usual wind up trolls have found the thread. Best ignored.

Yup!

My secondary school didn’t even do dissection, how on earth have I got through life without that lesson in ‘resilience’. 🙄