To think most of MN don’t know what having no money means

[icecolddrinks]

And that admitting to having none is humiliating.

I see it here all the time. Someone has no money. Someone suggests something to make life easier. The person says again they have no money. MN suggest a cheaper version.

On the thread about dress up so many people were saying to tell the school.

I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?

@TwinsandTrifle

"I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?*

For me, two things. Firstly, from having to claim benefits myself and astounded at the amount I was given. We literally lived no differently to when I was in full time work.

The second. I had no money, one month. The clutch went in my car. I had "3p" in the bank that month. What I can't understand is how people only ever have 3p in the bank continually.

So my view, is that I know what you receive, I wasn't special, that's what I received too. I know what average bills are, and if consistently you are left with 3p, then it is not down to lack of initial money, but your own choices on what you've done with it.

The odd month with a surprise large expense can't be helped. The rest of the year? It's down to personal choices. Some months I'd have £300-400 to just spend on whatever, after all bills and food. That's a huge amount. And it wasn't like we lived like misers.

So yes, because of having been in that exact position, and knowing how very easy it was, I question what made me so "lucky" when some people swear they are so hard done by.

But you’re not in ‘the exact’ same condition to pass the judgment you’ve just made there are you? Your post is just another way of summing up what OP is saying

That must have been horrible @FreshFancyFrogglette

I’d have more sympathy if the “I have no money” types didn’t smoke, drink or have sky. I’m sure there are many people who have no money and people who struggle on a monthly basis to balance their money, but in my experience it was often more a case of priorities being skewed. Ie no money for school trips but had nails done every week. No money for book day but drinks like a fish etc etc. Unfortunately it’s the children who suffer.

Not everyone on benefits gets the same.

Thank you for pointing this out. As an accountant, I sort of get that. And factor in the relevance to my ressponses that people get different amounts. They get what is right for their situation in their area. So whilst someone in London gets more than someone in Norwich, they don't actually benefit more, it's already been accounted for.

Many people live in areas where the benefit cap makes a huge difference, and they have to use money supposed to be for living expenses towards the rent

Yes but the rent is based on the average for that style of property in that area. The average. For their specific area.

or they have massive debts

"I'm poor because I have massive debts" means you've chosen to borrow beyond your means, and need debt management.

or are sanctioned by the job centre for ridiculous reasons

They aren't ridiculous reasons. They stop the system being abused

or are being financially abused by their spouse

Which is horrible, but not one that benefits factor in, there are other organisations to help

or are bound into contracts they took out before they hit hard times etc etc

Yes, and companies can be very reasonable, they are often very accommodating with reduced payment plans etc.

You see, I've heard it all from every angle. And the truth is, it's down to the person. I'm an accountant, (well, SAHM at the mo) DH is an insolvency practitioner. We have so much experience in this. And the same situation, two people will manage very differently. Some won't take any accountability. Feel entitled that they should live beyond what they can afford. There's a big "I deserve" culture. Or excusing their choices. Yes, there's the odd exception. But it's the odd exception

Not only is poverty relative, people's ideas of what constitutes it are relative. I've known some people who feel they live in poverty who are better off than those who consider themselves to be "just getting by".

There is undoubtedly real poverty in the UK but - other than the street homeless- there is far less absolute poverty than is common in many parts of the world (this is a good thing). What there is is lots of huge, in your face, inequality which must be difficult to live with.

Oh wind it in Twins you are the example talked about in the OP.

@Bunnyfuller save the electric from devices oh yeah that 30p a week is guna make all the difference!!
i regularly pawn my hp laptop, and i get £30 . we are not poor because we use devices !! we are poor because of greedy landlords taking over half our wages before we even start thinking about living... if i was paying a mortage rate, rather than rent, i wouldnt be considered poor. i actually earn a really decent wage, but most if it is being rinsed to someone who gets paid to sit on the arse, and not maintain the building properly,,,

I currently live fortnight to fortnight - I have disabilities and medical conditions, and survive with government benefits. I have no savings, no emergency fund - I don’t have enough for daily life, let alone some to tuck away.

I’m not in UK, so I get a basic disability allowance. It pays my (private) rent, as I can’t get public housing (even with disabilities and a child, the wait list is decades long). I have enough left over for my child’s and my own medicines, food for my child and electricity.

I am lucky enough that we go for a meal at my parents home 2-3 times a week, otherwise I sometimes don’t eat much to make sure my child does. There are no free school meals here.

To my shame, 2 of my siblings pay for my phone and wifi, as I could never afford them myself. A relative sends clothes her child has grown out of. I can’t remember when I bought new clothes, shoes or underwear for myself.

Aside from in childhood, I have never gone on holiday. I don’t go out to eat, I don’t go out at all, I don’t buy alcohol, I don’t have a pet.

I have many times previously walked to the shop and through the car park looking for any dropped money to be able to buy something more. COVID stopped that, as most shops here only take cards now, so there are few, if any, dropped coins.

So, yes - I know what it’s like to have no money. And I also know the absolute despair of knowing that the situation won’t change, it is just bleak, lonely and heartbreaking. And exhausting having to try to hide it from everyone.

@EleanorOlephantisjustfine

I’d have more sympathy if the “I have no money” types didn’t smoke, drink or have sky. I’m sure there are many people who have no money and people who struggle on a monthly basis to balance their money, but in my experience it was often more a case of priorities being skewed. Ie no money for school trips but had nails done every week. No money for book day but drinks like a fish etc etc. Unfortunately it’s the children who suffer.

Ah someone has come along to have a go at poor people having sky

It's actually a really cost effective way to entertain kids who have no prospect of going to the cinema, theme park, even getting the bus to the park.

Our package is £3 a week and I share with my sister who pays me half. That's less than the cost of one person to get the bus one way to the park once a week. Mean all 4 of us can watch a film together most nights and have a couple of series on the go too.

Ditto alcohol, a £4 bottle of wine from lidl every week or so makes having to turn down every social event a little more bearable

I kind of take your point re cigarettes but if someone has always smoked and falls on hard times, that extra bit of will power required to give up on top of everything else going on can feel impossible

I'm funnily enough also a qualified accountant though you don't really need to be to work a benefits calculator. I just ran one to check if we were both unemployed; 2 adults, 1 child. After rent costs we would have £660.58 to pay for all bills, food, transport to look for jobs etc. I'm not saying it's impossible but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

Claiming as a couple is far less than two individual claims as you well know. And your rent must be very high. Which I assume it is, with you both employed and you're on a qualified wage. You'd obviously need to relocate to a house within your means. But you know that too, instead of trying to apply a benefit calc to the cost of an expensive property occupied by a couple with two wages, one, a high professional salary.

@TwinsandTrifle i really hope that your life is always as privileged as it is now. You are only addressing the comments that you have an answer for. And continually mentioning that you are an accountant which apparently means you know everything about the benefits system.
Some of the sanctions are ridiculous. How can someone realistically spend 35 hours a week job searching if they live in an area with no jobs. There is only so many times your pride will let you ask the local shop if they have work when they told you no the day before. And again what about those working full time who cant afford to live.

@icecolddrinks

Oh I really understand *@OlympicProcrastinator*

And yes to the teacher present / card thing … that’s exactly what I mean.

I don’t. I grew up on FSM and hand me downs. Ive been homeless so I know what being really broke looks like. There is no shame in being broke but there is in not doing everything possible to maximize your money/finances when you have kids.

It's ok, you did tell us. We didn't listen. As PP said it's always Twins.

Quite recently, I saw what skint means. A woman with an adult Downs child in front of me in a supermarket queue was taking stuff our of her trolley to try to get down to the amount that her card would cover. The quese was restive, so the staff took her down to sort it all out at the customer service desk. I asked the checkout operator to put it all through on my card and get someone to take it to her. She obviously needed everything there. I hope she wasn't embarrassed though.

@fruitpastillelolly

I've also been on both sides. About 15 years ago, I was buying a week of meals for around £5 and having to pay by cheque because I didn't have enough in the bank until payday. Now, I earn a decent amount but save and think about purchases over £50 for a few weeks, because that feeling of having nothing (or often, minus nothing!) was exhausting and miserable.

I can remember having to write a cheque for the shopping near the end of the month, and praying that it wouldn't clear before pay day. The anxiety of not knowing how the hell you're going to get to the end of the week/month without running out of money is a nightmare.

It's awful, and knowing you have enough in the bank to pay for a boiler or car repair if necessary is a great feeling.

@XingMing

Quite recently, I saw what skint means. A woman with an adult Downs child in front of me in a supermarket queue was taking stuff our of her trolley to try to get down to the amount that her card would cover. The quese was restive, so the staff took her down to sort it all out at the customer service desk. I asked the checkout operator to put it all through on my card and get someone to take it to her. She obviously needed everything there. I hope she wasn't embarrassed though.

That's so lovely of you

I guess there are different levels of having no money. Many don’t seem to realise that some people really don’t have any money, as in they can’t afford a loaf of bread or a pint of milk, that they can’t afford electric for the metre.

I guess some people say they have no money when actually they mean they have spent their budget for a week and they don’t want to touch their savings, this isn’t what I call “having no money”.

Luckily I can say that I’m not that skint but I do know people who are, people who look down the side of the sofa for change to buy a loaf of bread ☹️, those who have to work out how much everything costs in the shop before going to the till incase they haven’t got enough, those who have to manage a few days without electric.

Yep. I qualified at 23. Hated it and quit. Modelled since as my main career, with some little bits inbetween

That's a really unusual modelling career, it's really rare to get signed so late. Even rarer to get signed so late & have such longevity.

@TwinsandTrifle

"I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?*

For me, two things. Firstly, from having to claim benefits myself and astounded at the amount I was given. We literally lived no differently to when I was in full time work.

The second. I had no money, one month. The clutch went in my car. I had "3p" in the bank that month. What I can't understand is how people only ever have 3p in the bank continually.

So my view, is that I know what you receive, I wasn't special, that's what I received too. I know what average bills are, and if consistently you are left with 3p, then it is not down to lack of initial money, but your own choices on what you've done with it.

The odd month with a surprise large expense can't be helped. The rest of the year? It's down to personal choices. Some months I'd have £300-400 to just spend on whatever, after all bills and food. That's a huge amount. And it wasn't like we lived like misers.

So yes, because of having been in that exact position, and knowing how very easy it was, I question what made me so "lucky" when some people swear they are so hard done by.

This is quite a judgemental post in that it seems to ignore the fact that not all on benefits are equal. In the sense that living costs differ depending on where you are as do circumstances leading to you being on benefits meaning you may have outgoings you need to meet until obligations are up. Appreciate you've been there but interested to know what part of the country you did this in, when and how much you received as I know alot of people on benefits or who have been who struggled. I wouldn't have managed well on benefits (I looked into it when partner was being made redundant). I wouldn't have been entitled to much though as no children or additional needs triggering other benefits.

@TwinsandTrifle

Not everyone on benefits gets the same.

Thank you for pointing this out. As an accountant, I sort of get that. And factor in the relevance to my ressponses that people get different amounts. They get what is right for their situation in their area. So whilst someone in London gets more than someone in Norwich, they don't actually benefit more, it's already been accounted for.

Many people live in areas where the benefit cap makes a huge difference, and they have to use money supposed to be for living expenses towards the rent

Yes but the rent is based on the average for that style of property in that area. The average. For their specific area.

or they have massive debts

"I'm poor because I have massive debts" means you've chosen to borrow beyond your means, and need debt management.

or are sanctioned by the job centre for ridiculous reasons

They aren't ridiculous reasons. They stop the system being abused

or are being financially abused by their spouse

Which is horrible, but not one that benefits factor in, there are other organisations to help

or are bound into contracts they took out before they hit hard times etc etc

Yes, and companies can be very reasonable, they are often very accommodating with reduced payment plans etc.

You see, I've heard it all from every angle. And the truth is, it's down to the person. I'm an accountant, (well, SAHM at the mo) DH is an insolvency practitioner. We have so much experience in this. And the same situation, two people will manage very differently. Some won't take any accountability. Feel entitled that they should live beyond what they can afford. There's a big "I deserve" culture. Or excusing their choices. Yes, there's the odd exception. But it's the odd exception

Again, the ignorance you're expressing is troubling, given your career.

So whilst someone in London gets more than someone in Norwich, they don't actually benefit more, it's already been accounted for.

It's not unusual for someone in London to get a lot LESS money in their pocket than someone who's benefits aren't hit by the benefit cap.

If the part of your benefits that's for rent doesn't cover the actual rent, then you have to top it up with the rest of your benefits. Lots of people are in this situation. Rents in London are astronomical and finding a landlord who'll take housing benefit is a bloody miracle.

Yes but the rent is based on the average for that style of property in that area. The average. For their specific area

No, you're confusing two different things.

The amount given for rent is based on the average in an an area. That's entirely separate to the benefits cap, which is a set value applied to all benefits. The only difference in areas is whether you're in London or not. But plenty of places have astronomical rents (Brighton for just one example)

If all your family and support and job opportunities are in an area with high rent and you have DC and need a rooms to house them, you are faced with a choice of moving away from your hometown, your family, your support network, your DC's schools to live somewhere cheaper with less chance to pull yourself out of your financial rut as the job opportunities are shit, or stay where you are and pay for rent out of the rest of your benefits.

It's entirely unreasonable to expect everyone who falls on bad times to move out of our major cities. It's a form of class cleansing.