To not understand why SOME women wait around for a man to propose to them

[Flipfloppingaround]

It comes up time and time again on MN.
Woman wants to get married but is waiting for The Proposal from The Man.

Surely, once you've been dating long enough to know he's The One, the pair of you have conversations about your future and whether you want to get married or not and you proceed from there, rather than waiting for him to get down on one knee and whip out a ring?

YANBU. In can't imagine being in a healthy relationship where the couple didn't discuss their future.

My DH proposed to me but we had spoken about our future and our desire to be together and have children with each other, so it was more sumbolic/romantic than anything. We essentially were 'engaged' before that
Same here. We knew we were on the same page and same time frames before he proposed so it was a nice symbolic gesture, but not entirely out of the blue.

I'd not be happy being in a relationship where ether we couldn't openly discuss our plans, or where each time I tried the man kicked everything into the long grass with empty words.

I think in reality most of them have had the conversation in some way, thr man knows she wishes to marry, deep down she knows he doesn’t, but because he didn’t spell it out, so she keeps waiting.

I don’t get some of these comments, you do have a conversation but this doesn’t mean there is no proposal. My husband and I discussed marriage, we both agreed that’s what we wanted, we decided to buy our house first, he proposed, it was a surprise, yes, but not in thr way I had no idea he wanted to marry me, but a surprise as I’d no idea he was planning to do it at that time.

[quote PlanetTeaTime]@Borisjohnsonshairbrush

I love your handle [/quote]
I had no idea there even was such a thing!

@Borisjohnsonshairbrush fortunately we don’t get that question too often, probably because of the PhD thing! But yes it’s such a stupid question, if a couple knew when they were getting married presumably they would have announced the wedding date 😂

@PearlNextDoor I definitely agree society allows men to grow up more slowly than women, but there is an actual biological basis as well - men’s brains take longer to finish developing, and they finish puberty later. My DP still has the metabolism of a lanky teenager! Apparently his dad was the same and filled out when he hit his 30s. It’s actually been quite amusing watching all my male friends suddenly gaining weight over the past couple of years after them being able to eat whatever they wanted when we were at uni and staying skinny while I gained half a stone from licking an envelope

@EmergencyHydrangea

Because patriarchy is still insidious and toxic

Yes. It’s about time women became more proactive.

Just my observation, but every relationship I've seen where the woman had to be the one to move it along rather than the man indicating his keenness to commit himself, has been a relationship I wouldn't want. The guy always seems unengaged and only there for the ride, and is usually useless as a father.

@Bluntness100

I think in reality most of them have had the conversation in some way, thr man knows she wishes to marry, deep down she knows he doesn’t, but because he didn’t spell it out, so she keeps waiting.

I don’t get some of these comments, you do have a conversation but this doesn’t mean there is no proposal. My husband and I discussed marriage, we both agreed that’s what we wanted, we decided to buy our house first, he proposed, it was a surprise, yes, but not in thr way I had no idea he wanted to marry me, but a surprise as I’d no idea he was planning to do it at that time.

That makes sense (and is lovely!) - I think my feelings about it are that it seems like, and is made to seem like by the kind of people OP is talking about, as though it's actually asking the question. When it's not, or I don't think it should be - if my DH had proposed to me out of the blue before we'd discussed marriage I'd have been taken aback and a bit annoyed that he effectively used a 'cute romantic' moment to have an important conversation about the future of our lives together. So really, if he had proposed after we'd had those conversations, it'd have felt like a staged moment because it's what you're 'supposed' to do and I would have hated the idea that he was performing 'man asks woman because society says that's how it should be'.

But I'm a cynic and hate anything traditionally romantic and I really wanted us to get married on holiday and not tell anyone so nobody should really listen to me

I didn't wait. I made it clear I wanted marriage so we went shopping for an enga

Went shopping for an engagement ring. Got married at registry office a few months later.

But many people on here are suggesting that if a man hasnt proposed then he isnt that invested?
If he knows his partner wants to be married and is kicking the issue into the long grass, won't get married, but also won't come out and say he doesn't want to marry her (because it means the end of home conforts) then he isn't that interested.

There's an awful lot of men out there who are quick to move in and happy to have children with women, happy to encourage their partner to go part time/be a SAHP, but when it comes to marriage and making sure that their partner's contribution to the household is valued and their partner is protected legally they have cold feet, declare nobody needs a party to show they love each other, or more amusingly become selectively traditional and need enough money for a big white do, the right ring, the right time.

If two adults are happy remaining unmarried then they can 100% have a happy, committed religion that's fulfilling for both of them. It's totally different to the situations the OP is referring to though.

YANBU

The “it’s traditional” thing is a bit weird when they are living with someone. That’s not traditional yet they expect the man to be bothered with tradition. Bizarre really.

@Flipfloppingaround I find the whole concept ridiculous too OP!
Although to some extent I do think that expectation is pushed onto women. DP and I got engaged after being together 10 years and after we’d been together probably 1-2 years it’s all people asked about 🙄 “how’s X? Has he not proposed yet?” Or “ohhh, maybe he’ll propose at X”. Tended to always come from the older generation. So I can to some extent see why some women grow up believing it’s something they should be waiting for!

For us it was a discussion right from when we started getting “serious”. Both knew we wanted to get married and have children some day but neither of us were in a rush. We’re both of the same opinion that titles don’t really mean anything to us but that when the day came that children were involved we’d want to be married for security more than anything else. Had our first DC last year and i decided to put off a wedding until after the pandemic and just focus on DC - it’ll be a registry office with very immediate family only but I have one very vulnerable who I would not want to do it without. We have a date set for this year though! Never ever expected a ring or a proposal at all but he surprised me with one (very low key at home) as he’s always imagined proposing one day and it’s something that he wanted to do 🤷🏻‍♀️

I have a friend who has been with her BF for almost 9 years and every birthday/occasion/holiday they go on she’s expecting him to propose and she comes home gutted that he hasn’t 🙄 but she won’t just talk to him about it!! Personally I think it’s ridiculous but each to their own 😬

@Borisjohnsonshairbrush

That was my point *@baldafrique*

People's experiences of marriage whether it's from parents or themselves having failed marriages may impact their feelings on how they view marriage. It's not personal and that their partner isn't "the one". My neighbours have been together 30years, have kids and never married, from what I see, they love eachother dearly.

Marriage is a bit like an insurance policy. You hope to never be able to see how useful it is (in the event of death/illness/breakup). Plenty of couples have been happily living together unmarried for decades. Equally plenty have been doing so happily until something unforeseen happened and one or more have been left penniless and disillusioned. Of course there are legal arrangements that can be put in place to mirror the protection of marriage. But the latter is quicker and cheaper.

People should really be educated about what marriage(in legal terms) actually means…

if my DH had proposed to me out of the blue before we'd discussed marriage I'd have been taken aback and a bit annoyed that he effectively used a 'cute romantic' moment to have an important conversation about the future of our lives together

I agree. I would actually be appalled to have someone propose to me totally out of the blue. I would feel really cornered.

I find the idea of waiting around and being unable to talk about something as important as marriage a bit disturbing. The idea of women being scared to have an opinion or a voice in their own future just because its "traditional" -- Yes its traditional, along with a lot of other things which were designed to subjugate women. Like women not being allowed to work after marriage. Or not allowed bank accounts. There are very good reasons why traditions are broken and moved aside.

Also I think the PP was correct when they said usually when a woman waits around for years for a proposal she knows deep down that she has been conned into a position she doesn't want to be in and can't admit it to herself.

My dh knew I wanted marriage when we met and that I wanted security before we had dc. We were together 3 years when he proposed though I would've been happy to wait a while after that but not much longer. I had always wanted dc, and we started trying straight away. Unbeknownst to me (after lots of tests) I had a significant fertility problem. I was 27. Luckily IVF worked first time but I am so grateful we tried when I did as if he (we) had held off marrying the older I had got the harder it would've been to conceive. I tried again to conceive at age 32 and was already too late.

@onlyhereforthecake

well, if a man can't even be bothered to make the effort to propose, there's not much hope for the rest of the relationship is it?

Forcing the hand of someone is not really the way to start a marriage.

What's forcing about a woman proposing and is not forcing for a man proposing

I mean you could be more sexist, if you really tried

Six months after we met, my partner told me categorically that he didn’t want to marry, period, so I didn’t propose, even though I knew he loved me and was already fully committed. Why would I risk that kind of awkwardness? I was happy to go with the flow.

Six months later, he proposed, I accepted and two kids and 32 years later we’re really happy.

I think we still would be, had I proposed but I knew his previous partner had really put him through the wringer so I wanted him to feel safe, confident and own his decision.

I sort of agree with you OP but I can see how it happens.

Thing is, life isn't simple. OK it was great for you that you happened to meet someone who wanted to get married at the same time you did and it worked out perfect. Others aren't lucky enough to meet that perfect person. Others get in to a relationship, it's good, time flies by and before you know it years have passed. The other person stalls on marriage. It's now a dilemma - do I stay in this otherwise pretty good relationship with a major compromise, or do I go and find who knows what?

Another thing that always comes up on these threads is "why doesn't the women just propose?" which is completely missing the point. If the women has asked the man to propose, that's a proposal in itself isn't it? What would her getting down on one knee change? He has said no.

It comes up time and time again on MN. Woman wants to get married but is waiting for The Proposal from The Man

Yep, and time and time again, she gets a right old bashing for it. For not realising that she's wrong, that she shouldn't be waiting for a proposal. That she should ask him.

But since every other bit of her life is soaked in patriarchal bullshit and inequality, it didn't register as A Failure.

Because she gets paid less, gets to feel scared to walking on the streets in the dark on her own, gets to clutch her keys between her fingers and not wear high heels in case she need to run.

Because she's supposed to accept all this, because she's a woman. That's how it's always been. So the bit that's also traditional, the part where someone asks her to marry him, she should stop being a passive twat about, and just ask them.

Because for fuck's sake. BE EQUAL. I mean, you can't, in life, but be equal here, otherwise you're not being strong. You're being a bit of a shit feminist. JUST ASK HIM.

Disclaimer: I'm really tired and my fingers are typing without my brain keeping up, but my basic point is: stop bashing women. This thread is critical, not empowering. I agree that women should ask men to marry them. I agree that women should have every protection in their personal lives that is available to them. I don't think that women should sit in a window, combing their hair and waiting To Be Married.

But neither do I think that another MN thread slating women for not yet overturning another cornerstone of embedded patriarchal bullshit is what the world needs right now.

And now I'm probably going to bed

JUST ASK HIM

If you have told your partner "I want to get married, if you do as well, propose to me." that is asking. And he can answer yes by proposing, or no by not doing that.

Ok yes it's a bit silly maybe, it's not really my thing either. But let's not be disingenuous and pretend the issue in the relationship is the man literally not proposing. It's the man not wanting to get married, or saying he does only in the far off future.

I was with my ex over 5 and a half years abuse, aggression etc. I didn't acknowledge led me to just still wait for that proposal now 9 months split I can see life could've been hell with him

I find this really strange too. I used to work with a few women who were waiting to be proposed to. DH and I were never really bothered about marriage, but when I got pregnant (with planned baby) I read up on the legal protections of marriage and decided it would probably be a good idea. I mentioned it to DH who agreed, we booked a registry office a month later and got married. I told my work colleagues after the wedding and they were annoyed that I had ‘jumped the queue’ . The most vocal colleague is still not married 15 years down the line, and they have two children! I think it is really bizarre.

It's not bizarre. They cant control another person. Sitting on the sidelines judging it "bizarre' is so lacking in any understanding of the power inbalances that exist where mothers are financially impacted by parenthood more than fathets.

Captaincorelli, you say it's bizarre but if you're then bf had said no, or not yet, or in 5 years, would you have walked out the door? Newly pregnant?

Women (mostly) have the choice whether they move in with somebody and get pregnant before marriage. Either they want tradition or not. I think this waiting for a proposal is ludicrous in this day and age. It is like saying they don’t have a choice but they do. I do question the strength of the partnership if one person can’t clearly say what they want. The problem is also many men now are really reluctant to actually grow up and be men.

DH and I discussed it and went ring shopping together - but he wanted to do the traditional down-on-one-knee malarkey and it was lovely (private) he surprised me with the timing and it's one of my favourite memories