DD1 and friends coping with poverty in SA

[Allington]

They struggle daily for safety. And for some people food, let alone somewhere safe to live. Even a proper (I.e. Bullet proof) house often has an outside toilet with a tap to wash your hands

@Allington, again, why are you presuming the colour of my skin? Because I disagree with the way you went about things? Because I am worried about my family? Because my nephews are helping, not looting?

Why do you presume that, because you've adopted two black girls, you speak for all black people?

The reason why I think you're intoxicated is because you go from one topic to another, make little sense, you're antagonising and not taking in any information. Is that just how you normally interact?

There is something so grating about virtual signalling white women who adopt black children and think that this somehow qualifies them to preach to other white people and pontificate on the plight of black people. It is at best patronising to black South African people and a new form of colonial arrogance.

OP, you ignored my question where I said if you were still in SA and were in a location where rioters are approaching like the OP of another thread’s family, would you not be frightened? I highly doubt that. You seem to have very bizarre beliefs about the whole thing. I’m sure you’d be getting on just fine because you’re happy with your moral compass

You also aren’t acknowledging that black South Africans working in pink and blue collar jobs will have been the first to suffer from the rioting. And the unemployed. Or those travelling home to unprotected areas from their jobs in gated communities But your post implies the rioting is the disgruntled black people and it’s only the nasty whites hiding because they are getting their just desserts

Any other criticisms to respond to?

White saviourism? Because I pointed out that the people whose hearts were breaking about the current violence didn't break their hearts about the every day violence experienced by the majority (I.e. not white) of South Africans? That when 'they' are concerned most of the white population put it down to 'their' culture, not poverty.

When equality affects white communities suddenly it matters?

@MrsTrustice

OP, you ignored my question where I said if you were still in SA and were in a location where rioters are approaching like the OP of another thread’s family, would you not be frightened? I highly doubt that. You seem to have very bizarre beliefs about the whole thing. I’m sure you’d be getting on just fine because you’re happy with your moral compass

You also aren’t acknowledging that black South Africans working in pink and blue collar jobs will have been the first to suffer from the rioting. And the unemployed. Or those travelling home to unprotected areas from their jobs in gated communities But your post implies the rioting is the disgruntled black people and it’s only the nasty whites hiding because they are getting their just desserts

No. Not still in SA. But have DD1 and friends in communities that experience horrendous levels of violence as routine

@AnotherKrampus

There is something so grating about virtual signalling white women who adopt black children and think that this somehow qualifies them to preach to other white people and pontificate on the plight of black people. It is at best patronising to black South African people and a new form of colonial arrogance.

Actually the adoption of DDs is only relevant because it exposed me to the day to day lives of their extended family. I wanted them to maintain those links, but that meant I experienced the chaos of family who didn't have the safety net that I had

What exactly is your message here @Allington? On Trixie’s thread you said it’s not ok for anyone to be threatened with rape or murder but to me it sounds like you are condoning what is currently happening in SA.

This thread is like starting to read a novel halfway through.

It's quite some level of arrogance to think you can start a new thread as a continuance of your hijacking of someone else's support thread without explaining yourself or linking it, but merely continuing your vitriol where you left off as if everyone should have read everything you've posted elsewhere in order to know what point you're trying so callously to make.

Oh don't worry, she's continuing her vitriol in the previous thread too.

@Allington stop hijacking Trixie’s thread and come back to your own one. This is your chance to get your voice heard but you’re not doing yourself any favours.

? I was told to start a new thread, so I started a new thread?

I am sorry if the disparity between white South Africans (after colonialism and apartheid) is distressing. But denying the truth doesn't help anyone

Yes, I am all for people knowing the 'very real' problems that exist in SA.

@Allington, the problem is a lot of us just don’t really know anything about SA. I’d like to know but I’m a bit confused on the posts as well.

So you used to live in SA and adopted two black girls.

You now live in the U.K. with the younger of the two, and the older one is still in SA studying.

Am I correct so far?

the problem is a lot of us just don’t really know anything about SA. I’d like to know but I’m a bit confused on the posts as well.

Same here. Can anyone either explain it in a "SA for dummies" kind of way, or direct me to some basic, unbiased, history please.

@Allington

Yes, I am all for people knowing the 'very real' problems that exist in SA.

I get that.

For some time I worked with a few South African people who had decided to live here to escape the violence of SA.

Does your daughter intend to stay out there or will she come back to England after a while?

I was supportive but your continued agenda on the other thread shows your reality. Made worse by the fact you do not have real lived experience.

[quote reallybloodytired]@Allington, the problem is a lot of us just don’t really know anything about SA. I’d like to know but I’m a bit confused on the posts as well.

So you used to live in SA and adopted two black girls.

You now live in the U.K. with the younger of the two, and the older one is still in SA studying.

Am I correct so far?[/quote]
Yes, correct.

I got to know them through work, then fostered them. Was able to adopt the younger one legally, but the older one turned 18. As far as I (and they) are concerned I am their (second) mum and we are a family.

Obviously the legal position is different But as far as we are concerned family is about love and commitment.

I was lucky enough to be working in a township since day one, so never built up the fears of most white SAs.

It has been a huge privilege to be welcomed into a very different community. Once my girls came to live with me, even more so. They have been a bridge to their community of birth - I have tried to promote those links, and have been treated very graciously and welcomed as someone trying to bridge the (very real and extreme) gap

On the other hand, my experience of White SAs has been of criticism, and exclusion, on the whole.

Obviously some exceptions. But... well...

That's been my experience.

YMMV

@Crockof

I was supportive but your continued agenda on the other thread shows your reality. Made worse by the fact you do not have real lived experience.

Err... what lived experience have I claimed?

I am not black and have never claimed to be so.

My daughters are black and I have seen them be told that (aged 5 for example at their pre school) brown children can't play.

DD1 has said she was treated better at High school compared to other black kids, because she had a white parent.

DD2 , since we have moved here, is amazed that the black kids at school get treated equally.

I am not inventing this for fun. I am telling you what my DDs tell me about their experience

I understand what you mean, OP. I have met many decent, hard working South Africans who are desperate to try and get their kids through school and try and claw their way out of poverty, but the payday lender sucks them jn when the eldest gets a laptop, their brother loses his livelihood when he gets shot in a hijacking and his car is taken, etc etc. It's a bottomless pit of misery and they have no safety net.

As a British woman with no SA links I cannot offer practical support on the ground. Are there any registered charities that you feel are working on the ground that I could support that will improve the lives of black South African people?

@Allington

DD1 is still living there, and half way through social worker training. As a young black woman still gets treated as a potential shoplifter by security guards for nothing more than browsing the magazines.

I get eyed up as a shoplifter just for browsing magazines! This is because due to a hormonal issue, I sweat ALL the time and therefore always have sweaty hair and cannot wear make up! No matter how smartly and maturely I dress, Security guards/staff see me and presume I'm a shoplifter! I'm white.

It's not just black people who experience prejudice

I can’t believe you’re comparing your excessive sweating to racial prejudice, honestly love mumsnet for shit like this haha