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Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

999 replies

Flayn · 12/07/2021 17:39

  1. What is the problem with taking the knee
  2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

OP posts:
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6
Preech · 13/07/2021 15:33

Other examples of genteel racism I can remember:

  1. Teaching the children at a very expensive private school as recently as 2010 to call anyone who is not white "coloured". Which still demarcates the world into white and non-white, even if you were genuinely ignorant of the history of segregation.
  1. Following a black woman you don't know down the street, snapping pictures of her backside, and posting those pictures without her knowledge or consent to social media so that you and your female friends can admire her "beautiful black butt". The idea that this is a violation, and that the woman could potentially be your client or your boss someday, does not occur to you.
  1. Trying to "joke" that you can't tell where Michelle Obama's dress ends and her flesh begins because the fabric is black and her skin is black.
  1. Referring to black people as "blackie" to be controversial and funny somehow. The people you're with finding it controversial and funny.

I could go on.

When athletes take the knee, they communicate to everyone, especially the children of all ethnicities watching them, that they're paying attention and they're saying enough is enough.

Preech · 13/07/2021 15:35

@Flaxmeadow

I suspect white people in the UK...

I suspect people in the UK, not just white people, are sick and tired of USA cultural imperialism being pushed on us. Colin Kaepernick and George Floyd are/were not from the UK, or even Europe. We are not the USA.

Racism is unfortunately not something limited to America or Americanness.

Kind of ironic that a British person is complaining of "cultural imperialism ".

Itsprobablynotcominghome · 13/07/2021 15:38

@mustlovegin

I suspect people in the UK, not just white people, are sick and tired of USA cultural imperialism being pushed on us

Spot on

Wait wait wait. You are sick of imperialism being forced on you in the U.K?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

MurielSpriggs · 13/07/2021 15:39

@ODFOx

I don't like that it is called 'taking the knee' rather than 'kneeling'

I'd say it's genuflecting! It looks very much to me like cultural appropriation from the Catholics.

Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"
VladmirsPoutine · 13/07/2021 15:40

Wait wait wait. You are sick of imperialism being forced on you in the U.K?

See this is why when you realise you're discussing something with someone who's knowledge of history and world events extends to knowing it's 'around mid July' you just give up! shrugs

Piggywaspushed · 13/07/2021 15:43

@a8mint

*And why not bursaries for all boys from low income households? Even so, I expect black boys are even more disadvantaged.* BAME are over represented at Oxford and Cambridge
They are not. Where did you get that tripe from?
Quaggars · 13/07/2021 15:44

@mustlovegin

I suspect people in the UK, not just white people, are sick and tired of USA cultural imperialism being pushed on us

Spot on

Um...... Whut Oh dear lol No words really for that so I'll just echo the hahaha bit a few posts away.
Flaxmeadow · 13/07/2021 15:44

Wait wait wait. You are sick of imperialism being forced on you in the U.K

No USA cultural, political, news media, imperialism and its bonkers obsessions with the colour of peoples skin

Itsprobablynotcominghome · 13/07/2021 15:46

@Flaxmeadow

Wait wait wait. You are sick of imperialism being forced on you in the U.K

No USA cultural, political, news media, imperialism and its bonkers obsessions with the colour of peoples skin

You genuinely disgust me.
Piggywaspushed · 13/07/2021 15:46

@Secondbellini

Piggy, then read beyond the first sentence. It does then demonstrate they are the worst by the measures used. I agree that we need to be more nuanced that just black, Asian etc as it is disguising disadvantage between different groups.

‘Data suggests that white working class boys are among the lowest attainers in our schools. Matt Bromley considers why this is and what schools might be able to do about it

In 2019, the average Attainment 8 score for pupils who were not eligible for free school meals (FSM) was 45.6. Currently, around 10 per cent of white pupils, 20 per cent of black pupils, and 45 per cent of Bangladeshi pupils receive FSM. In total, there were 33,697 boys on FSM who sat their GCSEs in 2019. Of these:

1,093 Bangladeshi boys achieved an average score of 42.8.
2,880 black boys achieved an average score of 34.5.
22,720 white boys achieved an average score of 28.5.
This data shows that white boys in receipt of FSM (who we might term “white working class boys” although, of course, FSM eligibility is not synonymous with working class) underperform compared to all other groups.

Of course, it is true that white British pupils perform slightly better, on average, than BAME children. But, because girls perform significantly better on average than boys, and pupils who are not eligible for FSM perform significantly better on average than pupils who are, then white boys eligible for FSM perform markedly worse than pupils from every other category, including FSM pupils from every other ethnicity.‘

This is literally my area of expertise. That article lifts information form the already controversial race and disparities report and a recent Education Select committee cross party report. Nearly half the members of the committee protested about the language and bias of the report and said it lacked nuance and was trying -deliberately- to put aside issues of significant racial disadvantage in order to continue to pursue a 'Culture wars' agenda.
NeedNewKnees · 13/07/2021 15:47

No problem with it at all.

Flaxmeadow · 13/07/2021 15:47

See this is why when you realise you're discussing something with someone who's knowledge of history and world events extends to knowing it's 'around mid July' you just give up! shrugs

When someone starts making personal attacks in a discussion, they're not really contributing much

Flaxmeadow · 13/07/2021 15:49

You genuinely disgust me.

Why? For pointing out Americas hyper racialised politics, culture and media? Not only that, but it's being pushed on the rest of the world, as if the rest of the world is the USA.

Piggywaspushed · 13/07/2021 15:53

No racism here then? Nothing to see here!?

Quaggars · 13/07/2021 15:57

@Piggywaspushed

No racism here then? Nothing to see here!?
Exactly! It's hyper radicalised and coming from the USA! Nothing to see in the UK, its just all American. (sarcasm mode for clarity) Just ughhhhh FFS
emeraldjones · 13/07/2021 15:57

I found it moving and powerful at first. Now it's lost the spontaneity it makes me cringe. A bit like clapping for the NHS.

Piggywaspushed · 13/07/2021 16:02

yes, as someone who is half American and half British , I wasn't aware that only the American half of me could discuss racism, experience it, mete it out, be enraged by or intellectually interested in it. Perhaps the British half of me need only worry about class. Not sure.

Ramona1981 · 13/07/2021 16:04

@Flaxmeadow

The best thing about last year's protests was that a lot of British people finally came face to face with their history. It has been sugar-coated for too long. I'm Irish, married to an Englishman, and my husband knows very little about the acts carried out in the name of 'progress

British people face to face with their history? British people's history is working class, from labouring in the fields to the factories and coal mines. Then forming the first trade unions, fighting for representation, better housing and working conditions, an end to child labour, and the vote.

Are those the 'acts' are you're referring to?

I was referring more to Britain's acts relating to slavery and empire-building. Sorry I didn't specify that.

That being said, every other country in Europe, who was in a position to do so, was doing the same thing. If the Irish weren't already colonised, we probably would have had a go at being the coloniser too! We weren't innocent in what happened to the parts of the world we emigrated to and even in our own country. History is messy and not black or white. I just think it should be taught accurately.

Flaxmeadow · 13/07/2021 16:24

Perhaps the British half of me need only worry about class.

But this is my point, British history had been taught from a class perspective since at least the 1960s and this was inclusive. Now we are being told, by academics and CRT, that this was racist. Seriously, this is the insanity. That a history taught here in Britain for decades, from a left wing and socialist perspective was all wrong

People accuse BLM of being 'Marxist" but they are not. If only they were more class based and inclusive, but they object to it and accuse it of being 'class reductionist'.

The sweeping away and criticism of traditional European left wing ideas is not by the right, it's by the liberal elite and identity concerned USA. This is the irony. BLM thinks its left wing, but it's actually opposed to (European) left wing

Piggywaspushed · 13/07/2021 16:36

Hmmm, since the British part of me is Scottish, I could bang on about that for ages , Flax.

Ihopeyourcakeisshit · 13/07/2021 16:38

The iconic photo of the Olympic athletes black power salute is one I found very moving the first time I saw it.
Personally I think it's a far better gesture, if people want to take the knee fine, but I will never see kneeling as anything other than a gesture of submission.
When Keir Starmer used it as a photo op in his office it made it more cringey for me.
Black power salute all the way.

silverperiwinkle · 13/07/2021 16:43

No problem here, everyone should be treated equally no matter what they look like, who they choose to love, choose to be gender address as and who they choose to believe and follow. Respect should be given to everyone and people should keep themselves to themselves unless information and education is seeked

Secondbellini · 13/07/2021 16:44

Thanks Piggy for responding about education.

I really would have taken that as credible if you hadn’t pointed out the background.

FreeBritnee · 13/07/2021 16:45

I wouldn’t say I’m ‘against it’. My understanding was it was linked to BLM and I’m not convinced that BLM isn’t linked to more questionable practices aside from wanting to tackle racism. So in the same way I’m not convinced about Extinction rebellion but care about the environment and climate change, I am against racism but have concerns about BLM.

Secondbellini · 13/07/2021 16:46

It seems fair enough for all countries, including the U.K., to dislike American cultural imperialism, especially given its corporate and military expansionism.

It doesn’t mean we don’t have a serious racism problem of our own to address.