Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

@Smileyaxolotl1 claims to be a teacher in a majority black school. Scary.

It's so offensive that you switch the TV and missed the goal?
What makes you that angry about it that you can't even just watch someone else do it on the TV?
I agree with it but even if I didn't I can't imagine mustering a stinger feeling than a tut about it.
When you experience such strong feelings about what is really a pretty minor event not actually affecting you then you need to ask yourself why is it so triggering for you?

No problem for me. Dont really get the issue from the people who object.

Antifa are largely anarchists not Marxists anyway. That is why they have set up autonomous zones.

Not read the whole thread op. Racism pure and simple that why. Events after the football match confirmed why it was important for the footballers to take a stand.

Thanks SecondBellini
Makes sense
It is a bad analogy.

I do worry where is the line between trying to be anti racist and being a 'white saviour'

Is Harry Kane or Gareth Southgate being a 'white saviour' if they condemn the racist tweets or if they join in taking the knee? I would say not because they are showing solidarity not being patronising I think.

@Ooof
OP did not ask why white people won’t take the knee.

@SourAppleChew

I despise racism but I’m also a little terrified of what an organisation like BLM might do if they acquired the kind of money and power they are rapidly acquiring - through deceitful means it would seem in many cases.

Stonewall anyone?

Yes. When a good organisation goes bad .

@Ooof

Rather than asking white people why they won’t take the knee, why don’t you go after Twitter and the rest of SM that does nothing to stop the vile abuse? Why are there no consequences for the racists and the xenophobic stuff that post such abhorrent things? I hear someone being racist, homophobic or any other type of bullying I challenge it irl. Why are these giant companies not taking any criminal action against the culprits?

That is the bigger issue. But also include the trans rights abuses too (Mumsnet has a few). And also those who try to bully others by threatening them with being cancelled for opinions and views. You can legitimately critisise rashford for the penalty miss, definitely for his foray into politics (his choice to put himself there and he took the Mumsnet applause but should also take the criticism) but racism is just not acceptable.

@UsedUpUsername Lol you might want to check the dates. The first one (which has NOT been debunked at all) was in JUNE 2020. Your incident was SIX MONTHS LATER in December 2020.

How can anyone trust any link you post when you conflate 2 (two) separate issues?

They are part of antifa

You know antifa isn't actually a thing don't you

I mean they've picked up and run with it in America and we've imported the idea over here, but it's fucking nonsense, trying to compare it to an actual coherent organisation like the KKK is misleading

Like I'm anti fascist, have been on many "antifa" type protests but I'm not left wing or even vaguely left leaning

@UsedUpUsername

How do you know if they are lefties or not?

They are part of antifa. This is a ridiculous question. Like asking if KKK members are white supremacists 🙄

Except they were WHITE SUPREMACISTS. Not part of antifa.

I don’t think Gareth Southgate is a white saviour. He is a manager and in a position of responsibility over some very young players who started off within those football clubs as children. He has a huge responsibility to support them and treat them in a decent way. I think he has done a really good job of doing so, and has explained BLM and taking the knee to people in a way that is not patronising or sneering.

Whoarethewho Tue 13-Jul-21 12:49:11
onlyhereforthecake

--That's a funny way to announce that you're a racist.

-More than 800 messages on, and still we get stupid and goady comments like this hmm

Indeed and all it does is harden my resolve. I actually missed the England goal on Sunday because I refuse to watch the players take a knee and therefore had the TV off I'm not going to boo the gesture but neither am I going to actively partake in watching it like certain adverts. Fortunately for live TV it is predicable when it occurs when it is shoehorned into the highlights it is more difficult.

Harden your resolve to be a racist?

Loads of the people arrested were part of Antifa. It is a bit weird to claim they haven’t committed any acts of violence. Not seem that claim before.

Surely it is is widely supported that there have been a variety of different right and left wing groups involved in the violence?

Yes, harden your resolve for what?

@Chanjer

They are part of antifa

You know antifa isn't actually a thing don't you

I mean they've picked up and run with it in America and we've imported the idea over here, but it's fucking nonsense, trying to compare it to an actual coherent organisation like the KKK is misleading

Like I'm anti fascist, have been on many "antifa" type protests but I'm not left wing or even vaguely left leaning

I’m talking about the US here so relevant

@SionnachRua

Sorry humble pie , I didn't read early threads and I haven't read the news today so didn't get the reference to online comments ! Understand your point now

It's disgusting isn't it? Internet anonymity is great and all but Christ, when you see what's said about the players online you have to wonder. Some of it must be teens playing the hard man but plenty grown adults at it too. Anywho. Everyone gets a slice of humble pie now and again!

D'you remember what happened when England won against Germany and the camera panned over to show the reaction of a wee German girl crying. I saw that and my heart went out to her . As a Scotland supporter I have been there many times, as have every other football supporter at some point or other.

However, there were certain individuals who went of social media to crow and laugh at her distress. How shameful.

‘Like I'm anti fascist, have been on many "antifa" type protests but I'm not left wing or even vaguely left leaning.’

This is all just getting a bit bonkers now. The vast majority of Antifa are left wing and always have been. I mean, if you are not, good for you, but Antifa is left wing.

My family have been involved in the anti fascist movement since the 1930s. It is a left wing movement and it does exist.

[quote NeonDreams]@UsedUpUsername Lol you might want to check the dates. The first one (which has NOT been debunked at all) was in JUNE 2020. Your incident was SIX MONTHS LATER in December 2020.

How can anyone trust any link you post when you conflate 2 (two) separate issues?[/quote]
Thanks for alerting me.

Here is the relevant link:

www.stpaul.gov/news/surveillance-video-confirms-saint-paul-police-officer-jacob-pederson-not-umbrella-man

So please stop spreading fake rumors about this now.

I am white and trying to understand the gesture. I can understand it more now for football as a gesture of solidarity protesting against racism in the sport.

I think it came from kneeling during the national anthem in order not to show pride in a country that was racist. I think the on the whole the UK and it’s government are not racist but I realise that is my opinion. I wouldn’t therefore be comfortable to take the knee during our national anthem or be happy with other people representing the country doing that. The footballers didn’t do it during the anthem so that argument is not applicable to them.

I don’t agree with everything Black Lives Matter says such as defunding the police but I see that taking the knee is not exclusively supportive of that organisation.

It does look like a submissive thing perhaps suggestive of white people kneeling in shame about their white privilege. I think each generation can only be a honourable as they can be and I don’t like the idea of the shame of a whole race. But again I don’t think that is what the gesture means and everyone is meant to do it together after all.

As a protest against racism then yes I guess no objection but it feels uncomfortable for the reasons above and the history and links.

I would rather people protested whilst standing proud. Maybe at football some sort of arm band or symbol to wear or even a minutes silence or a minute’s clapping.

@Secondbellini

‘Defund the police. Not 'get rid of the police' but question whether the money we spend on catching criminals might be better diverted to tackling the causes of crime as Tony Blair that notorious Marxist said in 1993.’

But police budgets have already been massively cut.

They are already really struggling to deal with DV and child protection as a consequence. A lot of crime needs a robust response across multiple agencies, including the police, not just shuffling inadequate sums of money between thinly stretched services.

In the context of the US it can make sense. The police in the UK, while not perfect, is very different.

@3Britnee

I'm mixed. I don't think politics should be in sport.

The same way some people think religion shouldn't be in schools. I personally don't care whether there are Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Greek etc schools. Each to their own.

I think sports, and any, people should be neutral when working - everyone has to be on every other issue - but do what they like on their own time/social media. I'm not going to not like one based on their out of hours beliefs. It's not my business.

And I don't really agree with blm. I think all lives matter and no race should be lauded above any other.

I don’t agree that racism is politics, in the same way that I don’t think sexism and misogyny are. Sports are an area affected by racism in a very specific way. This is utterly wrong and those affected have the right to fight back in any way they choose. I absolutely support taking the knee because it’s not my place as a middle aged white woman to tell people how they should protest against racism that I don’t experience.

I absolutely agree that no race should be lauded above any other, which is why I support BLM. As things stand, the situation is very unequal for people of colour. My dc are no more important than any other children just because they are white.

*This is all just getting a bit bonkers now. The vast majority of Antifa are left wing and always have been. I mean, if you are not, good for you, but Antifa is left wing.

My family have been involved in the anti fascist movement since the 1930s. It is a left wing movement and it does exist.*

All in saying is that beyond anti fascism there isn't really a coherent political aim to what gets called collectively antifa. Yes there's left wing people, yes there's anarchists, yes there's people that just like giving the fash a kicking. It is not a coherent structured organisation as per the KKK as suggested earlier itt

Yes, I wouldn’t have any position on the US police because I have next to no knowledge of what they do, what services they provide, how they connect to other services or how any of it is organised. For all I know they should be massively defunded.